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Aircraft Data Decoding A forum to discuss decoding the various data transmissions such as ACARS, Mode-S, ADS-B, etc.

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Old 01-07-2013, 10:42 PM
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Default MODE S beginning with SA

I have a question, that I can't seem to find the answer to anywhere.

I am using the Kinetics SBS-3 and I have picked up over 2200 ModeS numbers, beginning with SA, from SA0001 to SA0FFB. The "SA" series ModeS are not "valid", yet I have received quite a few

In all cases, each of these ModeS's are tracked, sometimes the numbers are used more than 2, or 3, or even more times.

Every time I see it is when there appears to be a slow down in live ModeS and ADS-B traffic. For now, I've labelled it as FAA Practice Tracking and have taken a few videos using the Base Station software and have a few screen captures too.

I'm making an assumption that possibly the FAA guys are taking advantage of the downtime to practice / train, maybe ? The tracks, usually depart/arrive from KTUS, KDMA, KRYN and some of the smaller airports. Other times, it is clearly of tracks that are orbiting. Sometimes, I get the feeling it might be a live transposition of the ModeS data with a radar track and then for a very short time displayed via ADS-B.

I am including a couple of screen shots. Hopefully, someone can advise on this please ?

Thanks for any help or suggestions.
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Old 01-08-2013, 1:49 PM
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I get these "SA" targets in Albuquerque too. These targets are in TIS-B area that the FAA is transmitting to other aircraft that have ADS-B IN capabilities.
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abqscan View Post
I get these "SA" targets in Albuquerque too. These targets are in TIS-B area that the FAA is transmitting to other aircraft that have ADS-B IN capabilities.
Ahh, that makes sense. So then these would be real-time broadcasts. Wonder why it's not always done. It seems to show up at only slow times, as a general rule, not absolute.

Thanks, I appreciate the help.
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Old 01-08-2013, 6:20 PM
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I wonder if an aircraft has ADS-B In and OUT and that is when the system knows to output the TIS-B Data???
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:44 PM
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Just thinking about that and what is happening. Most of the SA codes are usually low-flying aircraft. On a rare occasion, I have seen a track over 100nm away from me showing up. However, normally, it is only showing up around the bigger airfields around the Tucson area and at altitudes generally below 10,000 feet.

With that being said, I, of course am monitoring MILAIR and CIVAIR freqs for any indications of anyone flying in the area of the plots, that could possibly be effected, deconfliction, by the plots via the SA codes. Sorry to say, I have not yet correlated most of the activity. I have been successful on a few tracks, but the percentage is so miniscule

On a different note, I just installed Plane Plotter and I think I am transmitting my stuff via Plane Plotter and I noticed today that the SA plots showed up on my screen. So, I'm curious if others are seeing it, just in case, I actually configured it correctly to share my data
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Old 01-10-2013, 4:46 AM
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what's your plane plotter sharer ID and we can look.
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Old 01-12-2013, 7:41 PM
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what's your plane plotter sharer ID and we can look.

It is "eD".
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Old 01-13-2013, 3:06 PM
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FLANO, I'm looking at your station's traffic now. From PlanePlotter, I don't see the TIS-B traffic.

I'm fairly certain Eric is describing the correct diagnosis of your observations. Both you and he are in the Terminal Services area coverage. See the link:

Resources - Notices - FAA - FAASTeam - FAASafety.gov

Your observations of traffic less than 10,000 ft and out to 100 nm of this type also seem to line up with we'd expect with the new FIS-B and TIS-B.

If any of you have an SDR tune to 978 MHz and see if you get any hits from the UAT squitters.

In Colorado, we don't have any of this yet and there is no UAT traffic that I can discern.

Thanks,

Mike, "Am"
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Old 01-13-2013, 3:22 PM
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As I read through the thread, and detected some similarities in altitude for many of the targets, is it possible that the "SA" designator is, in fact, the usual ATC system use of "SA": Suspect Aircraft?
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Old 01-14-2013, 9:56 AM
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In April of last year, Bev sent me an email saying my station was sending weird HEX codes to the PP server, and was concerned about it. Here were some of my codes

SA022F .NO-REG 4500' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:28:28 UTC
SA0279 .NO-REG 2775' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:20:31 UTC
SA02C1 .NO-REG 4275' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 16:09:32 UTC
SA052C .NO-REG 3900' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:28:23 UTC
SA0A22 .NO-REG 3350' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 16:09:32 UTC
SA0A69 .NO-REG 0' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 15:57:13 UTC
SA0E26 .NO-REG 4900' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:22:32 UTC
SA0EE3 .NO-REG 3100' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:26:33 UTC


I tried to tack down what these aircraft were and some of them were helicopters from Kirtland and some were commercial aircraft flying into KABQ. I think Bev blocked these typed of HEX codes from showing up on PP.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:32 PM
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I dunno. I am getting the same thing Eric is getting, and like Eric, it shows up on the PlanePlotter Aircraft list for me, but I didn't see it plot the traffic. It might be blocked Tracks real nice on the Kinetics BaseStation software.

Also, it doesn't fit the numbering scheme for the DF18 code within ADSB for TIS-B. It is showing as a "6" not an "11" as I expected it would be on the PlanePlotter Aircraft listing.

I read all of the TIS-B related messages on the PlanePlotter YahooGroup and this doesn't seem to fit the pattern according to the messages.

Here is my screen capture of the Aircraft list:
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abqscan View Post
In April of last year, Bev sent me an email saying my station was sending weird HEX codes to the PP server, and was concerned about it. Here were some of my codes

SA022F .NO-REG 4500' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:28:28 UTC
SA0279 .NO-REG 2775' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:20:31 UTC
SA02C1 .NO-REG 4275' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 16:09:32 UTC
SA052C .NO-REG 3900' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:28:23 UTC
SA0A22 .NO-REG 3350' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 16:09:32 UTC
SA0A69 .NO-REG 0' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 15:57:13 UTC
SA0E26 .NO-REG 4900' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:22:32 UTC
SA0EE3 .NO-REG 3100' 0000 [reg] at 12-04-06 18:26:33 UTC


I tried to tack down what these aircraft were and some of them were helicopters from Kirtland and some were commercial aircraft flying into KABQ. I think Bev blocked these typed of HEX codes from showing up on PP.
Eric,

FYI, I just posted a question abou this to the PlanePlotter Yahoo Group.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanpprcn View Post
FLANO, I'm looking at your station's traffic now. From PlanePlotter, I don't see the TIS-B traffic.

I'm fairly certain Eric is describing the correct diagnosis of your observations. Both you and he are in the Terminal Services area coverage. See the link:

Resources - Notices - FAA - FAASTeam - FAASafety.gov

Your observations of traffic less than 10,000 ft and out to 100 nm of this type also seem to line up with we'd expect with the new FIS-B and TIS-B.

If any of you have an SDR tune to 978 MHz and see if you get any hits from the UAT squitters.

In Colorado, we don't have any of this yet and there is no UAT traffic that I can discern.

Thanks,

Mike, "Am"
Mike,

Interesting ! I wish I had read this before making my post on the PlanePlotter Group, but I still have to wonder if the SA0 tracks are TIS-B.

I'll have to take a drive to Sierra Vista and see if they are getting these SA0 messages down there. That's gonna be a long day trip, unless I get lucky.

I will be going to Phoenix for 3-days in February, so I'll bring my equipment up there to check out Williams.

It makes sense about the TIS-B coming from Davis-Monthan AFB, as the FAA TRACON is housed there.

Thanks for pointing this out to me.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:47 AM
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Just to keep everyone here up with what I've learned Lots of help out there, thank you.

it looks like these "SA0" type tracks could in fact be ADS-R messages.

ADS-R messages are retransmissions from a ground station that basically repeats the ADS-B messages between UAT and 1090--ES equipped aircraft. The obvious benefit is for the aircraft in the vicinity that have the capability to receive ADSB messaging about the UAT only equipped aircraft near them.

More work on this to come There are some very specific timings involved to differentiate TIS-B and ADS-R and I think the SBS-3 will let me do that ....
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:22 AM
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I believe the TIS-B IDs show up in lower case on the PlanePlotter aircraft list screen.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveNF2G View Post
I believe the TIS-B IDs show up in lower case on the PlanePlotter aircraft list screen.
Dave, is this only on the local session? In other words, you'd see it if you are the host and direct receiver?
Can you provide an example of the text. I've yet to see any.

Thanks,

Mike
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Old 01-18-2013, 3:31 PM
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These just popped up on PP 2030GMT
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:59 AM
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Just to follow up on this,

I recently spent a little over a week in the Birmingham, Alabama area. I picked up "U00" ModeS IDs Displayed the same way as the "SA0" ModeS IDs do in the Arizona area.

These were displayed locally to Birmingham, but also a majority displayed tracks over Atlanta, GA; Charlotte, NC; and beyond. The tracks were displayed over the states of Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, North and South Carolina.

Also, spent 11 hours at Dallas/Fort Worth airport and discovered they use "T00" for their ModeS IDs. These tracks were limited to within 30 miles of the DFW airport.

I did pick up four of these "T00" type ModeS while I was in Alabama too.

As in the Arizona scenario, these tracks were typically displayed all at the same time and were removed at about the same time.

FYI
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