New Atlanta ARTCC frequency
- Thread starter jmpilgrim
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The 134.20 RCAG site is published on the latest charts as being located in Athens, GA (AHN). It appears to have replaced 124.45 which is no longer listed. This is Sector 16, East Departure, low altitude (11000 to FL230) that works ATL departures eastbound.
Thanks for the heads up, first time I noticed that. If anyone else notices any other ARTCC frequency changes it would be great if they could post them here on the forum.
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How often do they change ARTCC frequencies? And why do they typically get changed?
In my experience of monitoring ATC for almost 35 years I have not seen them get changed very often. Considering all the ARTCC frequencies in North America I'd guess and say maybe only around 1 to 3 are changed per year on average (I'm talking ARTCC Center frequencies only).
I'm not an FAA Tech but I know some have been changed due interference issues and others because they conflict with other frequencies after airspace reorganizations as new frequencies/sectors are added.
The changes are hard to track down because not all frequencies are published on the charts and the FAA can be very slow in updating their ARTCC Facilities Database (AFF) - see link below. NOTAMS are not always published and when they are can only be found under some obscure identifier..
https://nfdc.faa.gov/xwiki/bin/view/NFDC/56DaySub-2016-05-26
In this case the AFF was actually changed to reflect the new 134.20 frequency. Sometimes it seems to take years before they update them, especially high altitude frequencies.
There are also backup frequencies (not published in the AFF) that are used as required in some sectors when the regular frequency/transmitter is down for maintenance or there are interference issues. New York does this quite often rotating backup frequencies through different sectors.
So any reports of changes from listeners always appreciated.
I have found a few changes. I have updated my local Atlanta Georgia frequencies and all in the ATL ARTCC. How can I share this large file?
Moderators: Please disregard my previous post. It did not include the link.
Here is a link for the dept. of def. publications. DoD Flight Information Publications - Enroute Supplements
The USIFR contains useful UHF info, including ZTL ARTCC frequencies.
I post my changes to the ZTL ARTCC as soon as I compile them.
As promised, here they are:
Changes
RCAG Old Frequency New Frequency
Anniston AL 306.200 323.175
Athens GA 124.450 134.200
Augusta GA 323.000 322.325
Gadsden AL 133.800 124.500
Gadsden AL 353.700 270.325
Greensboro NC 343.800 323.025
Greensboro NC 379.200 360.825
Macon GA 290.375 282.225
Macon GA 273.600 342.425 *
Mt. Oglethorpe GA 346.350 342.425 *
Mt. Oglethorpe GA 290.800 370.900
Newport TN 236.500 282.225
Owing SC 269.100 363.125
Unverified Frequencies
RCAG Frequency Usage
Mt. Oglethorpe GA 307.900 Low
Uniontown AL 307.150 High
New Frequencies
RCAG Frequency Usage
Macon GA 379.950 * Low
Mt. Oglethorpe GA 379.950 * High
* These frequencies are identical, but have been verified by the NFDD
as have all these frequencies.
Wow, that's pretty cool. Any idea how accurate/up-to-date the Enroute Supplements are, particularly concerning ARTCC freqs? I wonder if they are just copying/pasting from the 56-day AFF files, or if they use other info/sources...?
Comparing the AFF vs DOD IFR Flight Supplement for Atlanta ARTCC, both effective May 26, 2016
DOD Atlanta - 125.9, 128.0, 264.2, 273.6, 279.2, 306.2, 327.8, 343.9
- frequencies not listed in the AFF or RR database
DOD Chattanooga - 270.6 HIGH DISCREET
- listed in AFF as 257.675 HIGH DISCREET
AFF Hampton - 268.7 LOW DO NOT PUBLISH, 306.975 HIGH DO NOT PUBLISH
- frequencies not listed in DOD
AFF Hickory - 125.15 LOW DISCRETE, 369.9 HIGH DO NOT PUBLISH
- frequencies not listed in DOD
DOD Hinch Mountain - 236.7 HIGH
- listed in AFF as 269.175 HIGH
DOD Mount Oglethorpe - 290.8 HIGH
- frequency not listed in AFF
AFF Pine Level - 243.0 HIGH/LOW, 369.9 HIGH DO NOT PUBLISH
- Pine Level RCAG not listed in DOD
DOD Statham - 132.745 LOW, 291.1 HIGH
- Statham RCAG not listed in AFF
- 132.745 not even a valid 25 kHz frequency
DOD Sugar Loaf Mountain - 281.1 LOW DISCREET
- frequency not listed in AFF
AFF Sugar Loaf Mountain - 121.500 LOW/HIGH, 132.625 LOW DISCREET, 243.0 LOW/HIGH, 353.625 LOW DISCREET
- frequencies not listed in DOD
DOD Tri City - 301.4 HIGH
- listed in AFF as 257.775 HIGH
The FAA docs are quite helpful in getting a good place to start, but what else can folks confirm from their own ears? Pairing VHF & UHF would be a good start, and even more so if you are close enough to confirm the RCAG.
From the north end of the ZTL airspace I can confirm the following:
ZTL29 LEEON: 128.800 / 360.825 (Greensboro)
ZTL30 LOCAS: 133.150 / 251.100 (Albemarle)
ZTL33 CHARLOTTE: 124.425 / 323.025 (Greensboro)
ZTL43 PULASKI: 132.975 / 307.350 (Hickory)
ZTL44 SHINE: 132.625 / 353.625 (Sugarloaf)
ZTL47 MOPED: 134.550 / 290.200 (Hickory)
ZTL48 WILKES: 125.150 / 263.000 (Hickory)
There are a few others I'm fairly certain on but I want to give that some more time before I call those 100% confirmed. If anyone else can provide confirmation on VHF/UHF freq pairs or freqs used at a specific RCAG that would be great.
From the north end of the ZTL airspace I can confirm the following:
ZTL29 LEEON: 128.800 / 360.825 (Greensboro)
ZTL30 LOCAS: 133.150 / 251.100 (Albemarle)
ZTL33 CHARLOTTE: 124.425 / 323.025 (Greensboro)
ZTL43 PULASKI: 132.975 / 307.350 (Hickory)
ZTL44 SHINE: 132.625 / 353.625 (Sugarloaf)
ZTL47 MOPED: 134.550 / 290.200 (Hickory)
ZTL48 WILKES: 125.150 / 263.000 (Hickory)
There are a few others I'm fairly certain on but I want to give that some more time before I call those 100% confirmed. If anyone else can provide confirmation on VHF/UHF freq pairs or freqs used at a specific RCAG that would be great.
So I skimmed several audit reports about the FAA and it seems that despite being Federal, they have a long history of operating in a highly decentralized manner, which impairs the ability of HQ management to monitor and report upon the activities of individual facilities.
Also recently I've focused more on monitoring ARTCC freqs, and I learned some interesting info. listening at late at night. For one, it seems you can get improved reception late at night. Also during night time hours they patch more frequencies together within a single ARTCC, and this allows verification and cross-checking of frequency assignments.
You will find that each ARTCC facility is divided into "Areas" (sometimes called "Specialties"). It varies between Centers but some areas can have up to around 10 sectors. During the overnight hours the sectors in each "area" usually combine into one or two positions (but could use multiple frequencies for coverage if the area is large).
Once you listen enough to one sector, and if you can can hear the controller, it's quite easy to figure out what configuration they are running. During the day a lot of sectors are operated in pairs and combine and split depending on traffic volume. Some combine vertically while other join laterally.
Having an ARTCC sector chart helps greatly here. Some Centers, like Boston and New York issues them to the public as NOTAMS while others don't seem to like giving them out unless you use a FOIA request and pay for them.
In case you weren't aware of it the best reference I've found is the RR database here ...
ARTCC - The RadioReference Wiki
Including some sector charts ...
http://wiki.radioreference.com/images/a/ac/ZHU_Sector_Maps_Hi_and_Low.pdf
As another example here is some info. on Washington Center. It's a Vatsim site but their SOP's, while not completely accurate and slightly out of date, are based on real world info. and will give you a basic idea of how it works.
https://vzdc.org/sop/ZDC SOP 2011-06.pdf
What Center are you usually monitoring ? Can you hear any controllers ?
Hmm, very interesting. I monitor ZDV from the Denver-Metro area. I can hear controllers on several freqs depending on my location and time of day. I did find a few maps of Denver Center, they are fairly old and/or non-detailed; I should probably do a FOIA and get myself a decent up-to-date map.
ZDV has 6 areas. So far, at various times/locations I've been able to monitor controller-side traffic from ZDV Sectors 5 (High), 13 (Low), 26 (Low), 33 (High), 34 (High) and 61 (High). After I programmed 2 scanners with an identical set of frequencies, it became much easier to find both sides of a conversation on patched frequencies. From what I've heard so far, Pilots rarely, if ever, reference ARTCC sector boundaries over the radio. Moreover, Controllers don't seem identify themselves by sectors or areas, they all identify themselves as "Denver Center". I suppose this makes sense given they're always patching frequencies in various combinations.
So maybe the sector boundaries are only meaningful to ARTCC controllers?
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I'm familiar with that area, there is really good coverage of ZDV over at LiveATC. I'm working with a ZDV chart dated 5 years ago, there seems to be some discrepancies from whats listed on the RR database, it needs to be updated. It looks like they tweaked a few sector boundaries slightly and renumbered some.
The individual sectors are not published on typical charts, they just show the boundaries between the Centers, so the pilots don't know or need to know them.
As best I can tell, no data files posted on the FAA web site make any reference whatsoever to ARTCC Sector Numbers or names. The frequency entries in AFF-3 show the associated RCAG site, but not a Sector Name or Sector Number.
There is another interesting file named "ARB.txt", a/ka ARTCC BOUNDARY SEGMENTS DESCRIPTIONS. For Denver Center it contains 64 entries with boundary coordinates and a strange 3-segment code described as "ARTCC IDENTIFIER + ALTITUDE STRUCTURE CODE + FIVE CHARACTER ARTCC BOUNDARY POINT DESIGNATOR ". Here are a few entries for illustration:
I'd be curious to know the meaning of the "FIVE CHARACTER ARTCC BOUNDARY POINT DESIGNATOR", perhaps this might be somehow related to sector numbers. Also, the last column is a boundary sequence number, perhaps that's used as a Key ID in another database table not available from the online data files.
In any event, it appears it would be impossible to co-relate frequencies to sectors without a chart explicitly containing this information. To some degree I can understand why FAA would not necessarily want to publish this information in widely-available charts; if they frequently patch ARTCC frequencies together the sector boundaries would become meaningless, especially given that (unlike fully repeated LMR systems) they can only patch the controller-side of a frequency, so pilots using different frequencies couldn't hear each other.
As far as I can tell they just appear to be an arbitrary way to identify the position. Note the points common between different ARTCC's use the same FCABPD number, so they are not specific to an individual Center.
Yep.
That's slowly changing as I hear more Centers in the US getting frequency-cross coupling capabilities. This does allow pilots on different frequencies to hear each other.
Although my understanding is the US system only allows two frequencies to be joined at once, while other systems in the world like those used in Canada and Europe can join multiple frequencies simultaneously.
I have not heard it used in Denver yet, at least on the frequencies I can hear the controller. It is quite common in Indianapolis, Cleveland and Washington on many frequency pairs.
COMM frequencies can be changed for various reasons. The very last thing the FAA would do is to change a frequency due to RFI. The FAA has some of the best engineers and technicians that work exclusively in resolving RFI issues.
More than likely there was an operational need for a new frequency at another facility. Since the new frequency would not conform to the FAA's requirements for separation, distance, co-channel and adjacent channel, the frequency required to be change.
Changing a frequency, depending on it's use, can create a "snowball" effect where in order to meet the FAA spectrum engineering requirements where 1 frequency change will require several frequencies to be changed.
A few yeas ago New York was having constant interference problems on 132.15 from the Barnegat RCAG, this went on for awhile until the frequency was changed/swapped with 133.50 that was over at the Williamsport/North Mountain RCAG.
Perhaps my memory is a little hazy and it was just a coincidence, but I seem to recall a NOTAM that specifically mentioned that the frequency change was due to interference issues on 132.15 and hearing a controller mentioning the change and reason for it to a pilot who was asking about it ?
To this day the AFF has still not been updated to reflect the change (The current ZNY SOP and RR database do correctly show 132.15 now located at Williamsport and 133.50 at Barnegat).
pilotman6012
Member
One of the ways is if you have a secondary scanner,scan those frequency ranges for Frequncies and make note of oines you are not using to hearing and other people may can help with the others,for instance if you monitor VHF only,you may not hear the UHF side,but somebody else may need the UHF side and not the VHF side i always try to get both and program in when i can.That is what happened to 120.0250 Memphis @ Muscle Shoals,kept getting reports of Interference from pilot after pilot.
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