Controllers Call On FAA To Lift Ban On Weather Radios In

[ka3jjz]

A fine example of our government thinking with what it sits on, rather than what's between their ears.... (from Alan Henney on Scan-DC)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Doug Church March 13, 2007
202-xxx-xxxx

CONTROLLERS CALL ON FAA TO LIFT BAN ON WEATHER RADIOS IN TOWERS

WASHINGTON - With many states observing Severe Weather Awareness Week,
air traffic controllers are urging the Federal Aviation Administration to lift its ban on weather radios in air traffic control towers so controllers can receive the latest severe weather and tornado warnings to fill in the gaps left by radar equipment that only detects
precipitation.

The FAA banned weather radios and all AM-FM radios that controllers used to monitor stations on the Emergency Alert System last Labor Day weekend as part of its unilateral imposition of work rules.

The agency initially exempted weather radios from the ban, even confirming for reporters explicitly last December that one of its own managers installed a weather radio at the control tower at Daytona Beach International Airport just two days after a Christmas Day tornado roared within 150 yards of the tower and carved a destructive
path through Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. But the FAA did an about-face in late January, declaring the weather radios officially banned and yanking the one out of Daytona Beach Tower, again putting the safety of controllers and the flying public at risk.

"It's really just amazing to me that we have to even continue to ask this from an agency that says it is committed to aviation safety. It's such a no-brainer," National Air Traffic
Controllers Association President Patrick Forrey said. "Don't believe it when the FAA tells you we have every possible weather tool at our fingertips. There is no tool available to tower controllers that can detect a tornado within a thunderstorm. We must have either a weather radio or access to the Emergency Alert System to get the latest weather bulletins."

Forrey added that while a select few towers, like New York-JFK, have advanced equipment that can identify wind shear, it is not like Doppler technology that television meteorologists have which shows rotations within thunderstorm supercells that are indicative of tornadoes and also predict the path of those storms. "The FAA can
supply access to low-cost alternatives to enhance situation awareness," Forrey said. "We need weather radios in the towers so we at least have a fighting chance to keep up with the latest weather information given to the public from these meteorologists who are
tracking severe storms."

Just days after the radio ban took effect last September, a severe weather system spawned tornadoes near both DuPage Tower in Illinois and Lincoln Tower in Nebraska. With FAA management having removed radios from all towers, neither facility's controllers knew of the impending danger nearby. At Lincoln, two controllers were on duty with
no supervisors at a late hour in the day. Tornado sirens sounded, an event that, according to controllers' own orders, mandates the use of weather radios, radios and televisions to monitor the weather. But there was nothing in the tower to use.

At DuPage, a tornado came within two miles of the tower. But controllers had no way of seeing it because heavy rains reduced visibility to a quarter of a mile. The controllers eventually evacuated when one controller received a personal call alerting him of
the situation. The next day, the controllers notified the supervisor and stated that the radio that was in the tower, which management took away, would have alerted the staff sooner. The supervisor replied, "You should have looked out the window."

During the Christmas Day storm in Daytona Beach, had the controllers had their radio, they would have received the tornado warnings that were broadcast to the public. At the time, the tower controllers were vectoring a Comair regional jet (Delta Connection) to the airport but, without any knowledge of the tornado embedded in the severe weather,
could not warn the pilots.

Fortunately, the aircraft landed safely after the tornado hit the airport, but, as the Daytona Beach News-Journal wrote in a Jan. 25, 2007 editorial: "Controllers are working without a contract at the moment . Maybe the new (FAA) work rules are the FAA's attempt to pressure its employees. Maybe they're just work rules that may or may not survive the next contract. Either way, the ban on weather radios seems foolish. Controllers obviously should focus on their job. But safety is part of that job. The FAA can police how weather radios are listened to. Banning such radios, especially at airports in Florida, is going too far and defies intuitive safety measures."

[n4voxgill]

"Controllers are working without a contract at the moment

So, is this a safety issue or contract pressure?

[mdulrich]

I can see a big problem with having a weather radio in the tower. Multiple planes being controlled and then the alarm goes off on the radio. Where do you think the controller's attention is going to be directed? And if the warning is for an area that doesn't effect the airport, how long is it going to take before the controller realizes it.

Something should be figured out to get an appropriate warning to the controllers, but I don't think weather radios are the answer.

Mike

[rbts]

Originally Posted by mdulrich

I can see a big problem with having a weather radio in the tower. Multiple planes being controlled and then the alarm goes off on the radio. Where do you think the controller's attention is going to be directed? And if the warning is for an area that doesn't effect the airport, how long is it going to take before the controller realizes it.

Something should be figured out to get an appropriate warning to the controllers, but I don't think weather radios are the answer.

Mike

Have you ever sat in a control tower that's 30 to 130 feet off the ground during a severe or tornadic thunderstorm? I have. It isn't fun. What does the NWS tell you to do when a severe thunderstorm or tornado warning is issued? Stay away from windows, right? What is a control tower? It's all windows. I'm not a controller anymore but the rules the FAA are mandating are stupid. Controllers don't evacuate the tower (we didn't) when the weather takes a big dump. We stayed up there until every plane was on the ground safely or diverted and the airspace was cleared and I've seen some of the worst weather you can see from five stories in a tower.

No weather radios in a tower? What sense does that make? What harm does it do?

[n211cr]

Originally Posted by mdulrich

And if the warning is for an area that doesn't effect the airport, how long is it going to take before the controller realizes it.

Thats why you get one with SAME.

I would think the NWS with FAA could come up with something efficient for these people but if they want to have an extra weather radio I see no reason not to. Many of the radios can be hooked up to another device instead of a straight siren.

[edweirdFL]

Scary isn't it. The tornado's path crossed the long runway at DAB after knocking down some fence. Then it went close to the control tower, between it and the main terminal, before hitting the ERU ramp on the other side of the field.

I can only imagine what it was like to land minutes after it happened, and find out the tower had no warning that it could have passed along.

Tombstone policy making is still alive and well.

[K0ATC]

Originally Posted by rbts

Have you ever sat in a control tower that's 30 to 130 feet off the ground during a severe or tornadic thunderstorm? I have. It isn't fun. What does the NWS tell you to do when a severe thunderstorm or tornado warning is issued? Stay away from windows, right? What is a control tower? It's all windows. I'm not a controller anymore but the rules the FAA are mandating are stupid. Controllers don't evacuate the tower (we didn't) when the weather takes a big dump. We stayed up there until every plane was on the ground safely or diverted and the airspace was cleared and I've seen some of the worst weather you can see from five stories in a tower.

No weather radios in a tower? What sense does that make? What harm does it do?

You are absolutely correct. At a tower I worked at for only 6 years in southern Illinois I personally evacuated 2 times. Both times a tornado was on the ground, once a mile to the south, once was was as close as a quarter mile. We did not have a WX radio, but at this particular tower we had a WX facility and they had called us and told us to evacuate. Our tower was over 200 feet tall and we recored wind speeds of over 90mph, when we evacuated they were at 70mph and the D-BRITE radar screens that hang from the ceiling and weigh over 100lbs were swinging quite violently.

To the gentleman that thinks an alerting WX radio is going to cause a problem for a controller, with all due respect, we are professionals and deal with many more noises and distractions every day then a simple WX radio. Also, with that type of sever weather in the area we are not going to have a sky full of aircraft.

Just recently we had the exact situation that is described in the first posting happen. I was at home, and my WX radio went off, their was rotation spotted 5 miles west of the airport, I had to call the tower and let the controller on duty know what was happening, she had less then 1 mile visibility and had no clue what was going on around her. At this airport that I currently work at, we have no WX facility or WX radio. We are also in the heart of Oklahoma where tornadoes are more common then most areas of the country. This is a serious problem and someone will eventually get hurt or killed if the FAA doesn't change their policy.

Scott

[mdulrich]

Originally Posted by n211cr

Thats why you get one with SAME.

What is the SAME code for a tower? SAME codes will alert you for a county. I've had my radio alert for a problem clear across the county from me many times, but when the alarm went off everythings stops. I can hear it now, "American 123 make an immediate right turn to................................................ ................... sorry American 123 my weather radio alarmed turn right to 120. American 123 did you copy? American 123?" "United 789 do you copy? United 789?"

Controllers already talk about their workload, now lets throw one more thing into the mix, a weather radio alarming. And this at a time when the they are working traffic with the added problem of weather in the area.

AGAIN, I say that a way to get APPROPRIATE warnings to controllers needs to be developed.

Mike

[K0ATC]

Mike,
If you look at the posts by Rbts and I, you'll see that two people who are air traffic controllers do not have a problem with a same alert WX radio in the tower with us. In my post I covered some of the reasons why it is not a problem.

As an air traffic controller I am, like you, entitled to an opinion, but I certainly would not tell you what equipment you could bring with you to fight a fire. I would confide in your professional abilities, and maybe make a suggestion, or ask questions to find out the real story. As an air traffic controller I can assure you that the alarm of a WX radio will not stop me in my tracks and make me forget how to do my job, I am capable of doing many things at once and adding a WX radio that may save my life will not hinder my abilities. In the near future you will be able to add an additional number to the front of your FIPS code that can separate the county into 9 sections, by the concerns that you voiced in your post I’m sure this will satisfy your conscious. With that said I hope you’ll respect the professional opinions of the air traffic controllers and not take everything you read in the news at face value. Talk of our workload and the addition of a WX radio are two different topics all together.

Bottom line, the benefits of a SAME alert WX radio in a control tower far out weigh the draw backs, it increases safety for both the controller and the light civil pilots.

[mdulrich]

Scott, I do respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine.

If they are able to single out your tower location with a SAME code extension, then I say go for it. I know that for any single location, the current SAME codes cause lots of false alarms. It is better than the old tone alert for the entire listening area. Tornado warnings and severe thunderstorm warnings are actually given in polygons, not counties, but the current system only allows for radio warnings for the county, even if that polygon cuts into your county by a small amount downwind of your location. I think a system that could project this polygon on a screen in your tower with an audible alert would make much more sense. The software exists to do this.

My problem with having an audible alert followed by voice announcements takes along time to sort out if the warning actually effects your immediate area. You say that doesn't effect your ability to control traffic, but can you say that for every controller in the US? While they are a fine group of people doing an extremely difficult job, it only takes one problem to cause a crash. Look at the controller who didn't notice the commuter plane taking off on the wrong too short runway.

While I wouldn't expect you to tell me what equipment to take into a fire, I wouldn't want a weather alerting radio in a fire with me. I want my undivided attention on the task at hand, not trying to put out a fire and listen to what the warning is about. But I do want dispatch or the IC to have the information available.

I just think there has to be a better system to give you an appropriate timely warning than a weather radio.

Mike

[trainman111]

Originally Posted by mdulrich

But I do want dispatch or the IC to have the information available.

And that's why air traffic controller's should have WSX radio's in their possession. They are the dispatcher's of the skies. The pilots have no idea if there is a tornado warning in effect, so who else should the contact? That's where I think the ATC's come in IMO.

[K0ATC]

Mike,
You make good points, but as a fire fighter, the WX is for someone else to worry about, as an air traffic controller the WX is for me to worry about. You are correct, a better system can be made, but that can be said about most things in this world. I see the use of a WX radio my best chance of getting something up in the tower with me, that will help save me and the pilots. It's a real fight for us Mike, we are going through a lot and never really had a voice when it came to our equipment, now that I am controlling in Oklahoma this is quite a concern for me. I guess we can agree on this "only in a perfect world" LOL but until then, I'm a licensed ham, I have my own gear, but I would never break the rules just to make me and others around me safe

Scott

[ind224]

Maybe FSS should callthem.

[datainmotion]

Maybe the FAA is worried about interference on the tower radios from the receivers? I know that's a stretch and you know it's a stretch, but what reason did they give for the about face?

[rdale]

They said it is a distraction. Nothing to do with radio interference.

[gcgrotz]

I read a lot of assumptions that a wx alert is going to blast into some controller's ear while he is talking. (Is that much different than the laughter and conversations I sometimes hear in the background? But I digress...) It seems to me that there are offices for supervisors or break rooms or off duty controllers that can keep an ear out when severe weather threatens, no? So the risk of distracting attention at a critical moment seems minimal. After all, these people are trained to multi-task.

No, I believe as others do that it is just another idiot bureaucrat covering his backside.

[K0ATC]

Originally Posted by gcgrotz

No, I believe as others do that it is just another idiot bureaucrat covering his backside.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement! Actually we are alone in the tower for quite a bit of time, and especially at night when I would most like to have a WX radio. Now that is not true for all towers, but for many it is. A distraction yes, but so is everything else that is something other then what you are doing at the moment. I find the ladies walking around at the aero club to be distracting, but I don't see the FAA out there dressing them in snowsuits!
Anyways either we'll adapt or someone will pay the ultimate price for the rest of us.

Scott

[Halfpint]

Originally Posted by mdulrich

I can see a big problem with having a weather radio in the tower. Multiple planes being controlled and then the alarm goes off on the radio. Where do you think the controller's attention is going to be directed? And if the warning is for an area that doesn't effect the airport, how long is it going to take before the controller realizes it.

Something should be figured out to get an appropriate warning to the controllers, but I don't think weather radios are the answer.

Mike

Mike,
You are making a typical `flatlander' mistake. (Do you remember the discussions back in school when they described the inhabitants who lived upon a sheet of paper? They were called `flatlanders' because they only knew 2 directions, Left/Right & Forward/Backwards, and didn't know `Up/Down' so they couldn't notice anything that happened `Up/Down'.) Unfortunately we, especially ATC people, live in a world with 3 directions and that is where your `complaint', `concern', or whatever falls down. Severe weather doesn't just happen `on the ground' and for aircraft this is an important distinction. On top of that just how far can an aircraft travel at today's speeds? Even out here, Colorado or Wyoming, an aircraft can easily travel across up to 2 or 3 counties and be at an altitude sufficient enough to be adversely affected by severe weather that by your own admission is happening `only' on the other side of a county whilst doing so. Giving the tower the information for whole county is just as much of a safety issue as trying to give them information for just the tower and possibly actually may be *more* important. I don't know if you have ever piloted anything but I have and I can tell you that the people that work ATC can seemingly deal with the proverbial `all hell breaking loose' around them from what `background noise' I have heard behind them in my headphones at times. What *I* would worry about would be that the `squawk' of a weatheradio alert might just not be loud enough sometime *not* it being a `distraction'. These are the people who have my life in their hands an I *want* them to have *all* the necessary information they can get whilst they do.

This `Tombstone' type of regulation by `deskjockies' who are probably thinking with their kidneys and giveing meaning to the line, "Space, the place between their ears.", chaps my hide. There are already more than enough things to worry about without adding something that shouldn't be and could easily not be in aviation. And this can be taken care of for under $100/tower or Center even if they go out and buy platinum and zircon encrusted radios!

Just an `Olde Fart's' 2¢ worth. {GRIM GRIN!}

[gcgrotz]

Originally Posted by scott4957

You hit the nail on the head with that statement! Actually we are alone in the tower for quite a bit of time, and especially at night when I would most like to have a WX radio. Now that is not true for all towers, but for many it is. A distraction yes, but so is everything else that is something other then what you are doing at the moment. I find the ladies walking around at the aero club to be distracting, but I don't see the FAA out there dressing them in snowsuits!
Anyways either we'll adapt or someone will pay the ultimate price for the rest of us.

Scott

Scott: I'll wager that when you are alone in the tower at night the traffic is fairly light and a WX alarm wouldn't be that much of a problem.

As for the ladies, well that can be a problem! But don't give them any ideas...

[Lexxx]

Don't you think the FAA reluctance to put this equipment in towers is more to do with legal liability than anything else?

Living in Canada I don't know the FAA that well, but I am a controller, and if the FAA is anything like the organization we have up here, then I'm guessing the FAA is going to have to be assured by their lawyers that equipment they probably won't maintain, providing information that they don't generate, will not leave them legally exposed. Controllers make decisions based on information generated from radar, radio receivers, data display terminals, printed material etc. All of this equipment is under the complete control of the FAA. Who controls the information that generates an alert from this weather radio?

What the FAA may worry about are controllers providing aircraft with the information from this weather alert radio without the FAA having studied the accuracy, reliability of the equipment, or developed procedures for controller use.

I know it may seem obvious that this equipment is a controller aid, but the reality is large organizations are very reluctant to take on responsibilities and liabilities especially with third party equipment and data feeds.

The FAA would also have to come up with criteria and procedures for allowing controllers to leave the tower, or move to a safe location. Imagine the legal ramifications of that if something happened to an aircraft with a deserted control tower and severe weather that in the end didn't affect airport property. There would be tough questions asked of the FAA.

We don’t get the severe weather up here that you get in the States, but I’d want that equipment in my tower if we did. I certainly hope you eventually get the radio.

Peter
www.ykf.ca