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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2012, 8:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8OAY View Post
Oops! I was not thinking about the pre-programmed scanners when I wrote that post. Yes, the Home Patrol does receive the 700 MHz band. And I was not aware of the PSR-800 ability to receive TDMA II. The PSR-800 might be the best choice in this case. The RR.com home page for the statewide system which includes the Madison County system indicates that there is some TDMA Phase II in use on the system.

I am kinda wishing now that I had not bought the PSR-500. With County fire going encrypted, I expect Huntsville and Madison City fire to do the same. If that does happen, I will have a PSR-500 for sale. My Yaesu Vertex VX-150 portable ham radio receives railroads better than the PSR-500 and fits in the shirt pocket.
Madison Co. Fire is indeed encrypted. I don't know about HFD.
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Old 11-03-2012, 6:28 PM
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I am currently monitoring a working fire involving Monrovia, Harvest and Toney VFDs. Also have Killingsworth Cove and Moores Mill VFDs on other runs. The County Fire Dispatch VHF 154.385 is active on the P25 system talk group 30625 only part of the time. Pro96Com is not detecting it every time that 154.385 is transmitting. I am wondering if maybe all County Fire personnel do not yet have the P25 system radios. The County Fire "Capshaw" repeater 154.010 is also being used on the working fire, but none of the traffic I am hearing on 154.010 is being simulcast on the P25 system. Madison County Fire Dispatch on the P25 system is encrypted.

I have also had a few hits on 3 other new talk groups, 30235, 30644 and 30645 which I can not identify. They appear in the "Talkgroups.txt" file but I was not looking at the computer when they showed up.
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Old 11-10-2012, 2:55 PM
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Currently picking up traffic on TG 3, 5 and 7. Sounds like HPD dispatches. I think TG3 is HPD North.
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Old 11-11-2012, 8:51 AM
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Now this morning there is no traffic on TG 3, 5 or 7. Pro96Com is not catching anything but TG 30225. My location is just south of Capshaw Mountain so I don't know what's different and the control channel is being reported as 772.28125 currently.
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Last edited by rvholland; 11-11-2012 at 8:54 AM..
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Old 11-11-2012, 3:19 PM
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It's quite possible those are just test talkgroups and not permanently assigned to anyone. That's the way it is now with single and double digit TG's on MSWIN.

Last edited by KE5TLF; 11-11-2012 at 3:25 PM..
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Old 11-24-2012, 8:26 PM
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I ran Pro96Com most of the day on this system. Tower302, Talkgroups and Radios text files are attached. I found several new talkgroups, now totaling 42. Also logged over a hundred new radio IDs. Pro96Com sees 10 of the 42 talkgroups as being encrypted, although I saw some that were encrypted some times but not on every hit. I flagged 30025 and 30026 as possibly being Madison PD, but now I am not so sure after reviewing the files.

Madison County Fire was not on the P25 system today. I heard a few dispatches on the other scanner while I was running Pro96Com but did not see a P25 system talkgroup active at the same time.

All of the new talkgroups that I logged ceased activity between 5pm and 7:30pm. Other than 3, 5, 7, 11 and 30525, I have not seen any of them appear on the scanner since I stopped running Pro96Com.

I did see a couple things that are interesting. Talkgroup 30525 logged 643 hits, but I never saw a radio ID along with that talkgroup on the activity screen. On the Grants screen, 30525 showed up with radio ID 0 affiliated. I do not see a radio ID 0 in the radios.txt file.

On the Activity screen Type column, I saw some activity listed as "Alert". These alerts always had 7 digit talkgroup IDs. Those 7 digit talkgroup IDs do not appear in the talkgroups.txt file.

If anyone has any ideas what might be happening with these last two items, please let me know. The attached Grant Log shows the 0 talk group ID.

Dave
Attached Files
File Type: txt Tower0302.txt (1.7 KB, 67 views)
File Type: txt TalkGroups.txt (5.1 KB, 62 views)
File Type: txt Radios.txt (37.4 KB, 67 views)
File Type: zip 20121124-GrantLog-302.csv.zip (46.3 KB, 10 views)
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Old 11-27-2012, 4:10 AM
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I opened Saturday's Grants Log file in a spreadsheet and have been looking at it sorted in various ways and came up with some observations. As someone else posted, I can confirm hearing Huntsville PD Dispatch on Talk Groups 3, 5 and 7. Some of the same Radio IDs appearing on those Talk Groups also show up using 11, 30025, 30026, 30034, 30044 and 30045 (all encrypted), so I think we can assume that the 300## series of Talk Groups are Huntsville Police. Since I am not very familiar with the Huntsville area (I have lived here only 6 months and know only a very few main roads), I can't confirm which districts are on which dispatch Talk Groups.

Does anyone know what the significance of Radio IDs is on this system? Pro96Com has logged Radio Ids with 2, 3, 4, 7 and 8 digits. I think 5006, 5007 and 5008 are Sheriff Dispatch consoles which would make the 7 digit numbers on the Sheriff Talk Groups mobile units, so I assume all 4 digit numbers are dispatch consoles and all 7 digit numbers are mobile units. Likewise, I think Radio IDs 5001, 5002, 5003 and 5004 are Huntsville Police Dispatch consoles. I also see other 4 digit Radio IDs in the 1###, 2### and 3### series on the confirmed HPD 3, 5 and 7 Talk Groups

As I noted in the above post, Pro96Com logged several hits Saturday with a Radio ID of "0". All of those hits are on talk groups 30525 (319 hits) and 30529 (2 hits). A response to a question I posted on the Trunking Control Channel Decoding forum suggests this might be a patch to an external resource such as a conventional repeater.

I have one 8 digit Radio ID, 16777215, which shows up on talk groups 30034, 30044 and 30045, all of which are encrypted.

The 2 and 3 digit IDs all show up on talk groups 5, 7, 30025 and 30026.

Also interesting is that on Saturday, most traffic on Talk Groups other than the Madison County Sheriff stopped around 6 to 7pm. Tonight, I was hearing traffic (did not run Pro96Com) on the confirmed HPD 3, 5 and 7 Talk Groups until midnight. After midnight, the only traffic has been the Sheriff.

Question: will the activity on Tower #302 also be heard on the other 4 sites for this system? The New Market and Gurley sites have been confirmed and posted, but there are 2 more sites on the FCC license. I have no clue where 302 is located, but it will be either Monte Sano, Drake or Rainbow mountains. I am assuming towers that should be 301 and 305 are not yet active since I do not see them on the RR system page. I am too far away from New Market and Gurley to be able to receive those sites.

Can anyone help me confirm any of the Talk Group usage? I have started a log sheet and will submit it once I have more confirmed data.

Thanks!
Dave
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 1:38 PM
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Yes, there are 5 sites but 3 of the sites are a simulcast cell. In other words, those three sites have the exact same number of frequencies and and use exactly the same frequencies. To a radio, the 3 sites look like a single site. As far as whether the traffic is heard on other sites depends on how the system is provisioned.
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Old 11-27-2012, 9:44 PM
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700 / 800 Talk groups showing a Radio Id of 0 on decode.

If it shows a TG Id and a Radio Id of 0 then that means they are being patched, simulcast or re-broadcast from VHF or UHF to the 700 / 800 system.
(which ever the correct terminology is)
TG 30525 may be a LE, FD or EMS patch from VHF or UHF, there seems to be a lot of activity on this TG.
TG 30529 doesn't seem very active so it may be something on VHF or UHF that's not used very much.
I have noticed the same thing while decoding some local systems in my area, several VHF, UHF analog conventional repeaters or mobile freq.’s
audio being re-broadcast on 800 from VHF or UHF.
If they are using VHF or UHF and you decode them you will see the TG Id and a Radio Id of 0.
If someone keys up on the TG with a 700 / 800 radio you will see both the TG Id and Radio Id and you will hear the audio on both 700 / 800 and the
VHF or UHF system at the same time.
Usually you can listen on 700 / 800 and tell they are being re-broadcast because it makes a distinct noise on the TG when they are talking.
You should be hearing a VHF or UHF freq. talking at the same time you are seeing the TG on the 700 / 800 system.
I have only seen this done from an analog VHF/UHF system over to a Motorola Type II or Motorola P-25 system.
I would assume this could be done on any system whether analog / P-25 or on Motorola or Harris system or whatever type 700 / 800 system they are using.
One of our local LE TG’s on 800 is being re-broadcast over VHF, on decode you will see the 700 / 800 TG with the current radio Id.
If they talk on VHF the audio on VHF will come out on both VHF and 800 but I haven’t got a chance to log the Radio Id while they were talking.
I would assume it would also be showing a Radio Id of 0.
I assume this is being accomplished with either using a Gateway or an ACU-1000.
This does not show up as a patch on the patch screen on decode, only patches between two 700 / 800 TG’s will show up on the patch screen.

Question:
According to the table setup on tower 302 it looks like Slots 2 & 3 may be TDMA table identifiers.
Looking at the packet dump screen does it show a TDMA (Motorola) Identifier in slots 2 & 3 in addition to the standard FDMA identifiers for slots 0 & 1?
If not what does it show for all for all of the slots?
One of our local 700 / 800 systems is running similar FDMA / TDMA identifiers, I assume it means they are ready for Phase 2 TDMA.

According to the Grant Trace file they are running a lot of (Pvt Data) Private Data, probably mobile data use.
Our local 800 system uses a lot of Pvt. Data for mobile data dispatch for the LE PC's in the Patrol cars and I believe some of the FD's may also
have the same thing in them..

Last edited by codeplug; 11-27-2012 at 10:27 PM..
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Old 11-28-2012, 4:16 AM
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It looks like the "0" Radio ID talk groups are HEMSI patching their UHF system into the P25 system, according to a private message I received. I will try to confirm that the next time I get a chance to do some serious listening and running Pro96Com.

I will go back thru the packet dump and see if I can see anything referring to TDMA slots. What would a TDMA talk group sound like if I would hear it?

If any of you guys would like to exchange information off list, please PM me and I will give you my GMail address which goes to both computers and my phone.

Thanks for the help!
Dave
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Old 11-28-2012, 7:17 PM
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I can confirm that HEMSI Dispatch is 30525. 30526 through 30544 are probably HEMSI. I ran Pro96Com all day, but I think the semi-black hole I live in may have got the best of it. I was seeing talk groups show up as encrypted and then a minute or two later they were not showing encrypted. And known unencrypted talk groups were showing encrypted. I did see a few lines referring to TDMA in the Packet Dump, and I found 15 new talk groups, some of which are in the series occupied by HEMSI.

Here is the list of talk groups that I have. This list does not include any talk groups confirmed prior to Saturday Nov 24. If you can help fill in any of the blanks, please let me know. The talk groups with today's date are the new groups found today.

3 Huntsville PD Dispatch North
5 Huntsville PD Dispatch South
7 Huntsville PD Dispatch West
11 Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
125 11/28
215 Unknown
30001 Unknown
30002 11/28
30005 11/28
30025 Possibly Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30026 Possibly Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30028 Unknown
30029 11/28
30030 Unknown
30031 Unknown
30032 11/28
30034 Possibly Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30036 Unknown
30039 11/28
30044 Possibly Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30045 Possibly Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30046 11/28
30048 Unknown
30229 11/28
30235 Unknown
30238 Unknown
30239 11/28
30240 Unknown
30242 Unknown
30243 Unknown
30525 HEMSI Dispatch
30526 HEMSI Tactical (Encrypted?)
30527 Possibly HEMSI
30529 Possibly HEMSI (Encrypted?)
30539 Unknown
30540 Unknown
30541 Unknown
30542 Unknown
30543 Unknown
30544 Unknown
30625 Possibly Madison County Fire (Encrypted?)
30626 Possibly Madison County Fire (Encrypted?)
30627 11/28
30631 11/28
30634 11/28
30636 Unknown
30638 11/28
30639 11/28
30644 Unknown
30645 Unknown
30646 11/28

I did not hear any traffic from Madison City Fire or Police on their conventional frequencies today, and I did not hear anything from Huntsville Fire on the old trunk system. That could mean that they have moved to the P25 system, or if could just mean that my RF black hole was very hungry today. I will try again in a few days.

Dave
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 1:27 PM
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30539 is definitely some kind of HEMSI tg, as you predicted for that range. it is not encrypted. hearing some traffic on there today. it does not seem to have a counterpart from the old set of frequencies.
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Old 12-02-2012, 2:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhsvf View Post
30539 is definitely some kind of HEMSI tg, as you predicted for that range. it is not encrypted. hearing some traffic on there today. it does not seem to have a counterpart from the old set of frequencies.
What kind of information were you hearing? Any guesses what the talk group is used for?
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2012, 4:50 AM
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Default HV-MC P-25 Trunk Radio System News Articles

HV-Madiscon County P-25 Trunk Radio System News Articles
See Attachment

Last edited by codeplug; 04-26-2013 at 8:12 PM..
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Old 12-02-2012, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8OAY View Post
What kind of information were you hearing? Any guesses what the talk group is used for?
sounded maybe like a channel the individual ambulances talk to their supervisors (300's) on. it was basically logistical information being exchanged.
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Old 12-04-2012, 3:17 AM
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I found 29 new talk groups Monday using Pro96Com. Here is the complete list along with Dispatch Console Radio IDs. The dates on the list are the date that I first saw the talk group. I have determined users of the encrypted talk groups by matching up affiliated Radio IDs with those of known confirmed talk groups. Several of the talk groups found today appeared in the Affiliations list but did not show any activity on the Site Activity screen.

Can anyone tell me how to identify Phase II TDMA talk groups?

Activity on the 305## and 306## series talk groups stops in late afternoon. HEMSI was active on their talk groups during the day time but are now back on their UHF system with nothing being heard on their 305## talk groups. I did not see any activity matching up with HEMSi's use of the 462.950 Medic to Hospital channel.

The 306## talk groups may not be County Fire, which I originally thought. Activity on those talk groups today did not match up with any of the activity on their VHF conventional repeaters.

Dispatcher Consoles
5001 HPD
5002 HPD
5003 HPD
5004 HPD
5006 MCSO
5007 MCSO
5008 MCSO
5014 HEMSI
5015 HEMSI
5018 HEMSI
5019 HEMSI
5021 TG 30625
5023 TG 30625

87 TGs

3 Huntsville PD Dispatch North
5 Huntsville PD Dispatch South
7 Huntsville PD Dispatch West
11 Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
125 Unknown 11/28
215 Unknown
455 TECH 1
30000 Unknown
30001 Huntsville PD ?? Some Radio IDs match 306## Maybe
System wide Common TG?
30002 HPD? Common TG? 11/28
30003 HPD? Common TG? 12/03
30004 HPD? Common TG? 12/03
30005 HPD? Common TG? 11/28
30025 Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30026 Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30028 Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30029 HPD (Encrypted) 11/28
30030 HPD?
30031 HPD?
30032 HPD? (Encrypted) 11/28
30034 Huntsville PD (Encrypted)
30036 HPD? (Encrypted)
30237 MCSO? 12/03
30039 HPD (Encrypted) 11/28
30044 HPD (Encrypted)
30045 HPD (Encrypted)
30046 Huntsville PD (Encrypted) 11/28
30048 HPD?
30225 MCSO Dispatch
30226 MCSO (Encrypted
30227 MCSO (Encrypted(
30228 MCSO (Encrypted)
30229 MCSO (Encrypted) 11/28
30235 MCSO?
30238 MCSO?
30239 MCSO (Encrypted) 11/28
30240 MCSO?
30242 MCSO?
30243 MCSO?
30525 HEMSI Dispatch
30526 HEMSI (Encrypted)
30527 HEMSI?
30528 HEMSI? 12/03
30529 HEMSI? (Encrypted)
30530 HEMSI? 12/03
30531 HEMSI? 12/03
30532 HEMSI? 12/03
30533 HEMSI? 12/03
30534 HEMSI? 12/03
30535 HEMSI? 12/03
30536 HEMSI? 12/03
30537 HEMSI? 12/03
30538 HEMSI? 12/03
30539 HEMSI Supervisors
30540 HEMSI
30541 HEMSI
30542 HEMSI?
30543 HEMSI?
30544 HEMSI?
30625 Unknown - Possibly Madison County Fire (Encrypted)
30626 Unknown - Possibly Madison County Fire (Capshaw ??)
(Encrypted)
30627 Unknown 11/28
30628 Unknown 12/03
30629 Unknown 12/03
30630 Unknown 12/03
30631 Unknown 11/28
30633 Unknown 12/03
30634 Unknown 11/28
30635 Unknown 12/03
30636 Unknown
30637 Unknown 12/03
30638 Unknown 11/28
30639 Unknown 11/28
30640 Unknown 12/03
30641 Unknown 12/03
30644 Unknown
30645 Unknown
30646 Unknown 11/28 (Encrypted)
30647 Unknown 12/03
30648 Unknown 12/01 (Encrypted)
30652 Unknown (Encrypted) 12/03
30653 Unknown 12/03
30656 Unknown (Encrypted) 12/03
30657 Unknown (Encrypted) 12/03
30658 Unknown (Encrypted) 12/03
30659 Unknown 12/03
30927 Unknown (Encrypted) 12/03
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 9:56 PM
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Dave, Thanks for the hard work. All I can say is WOW !! Looking at the talkgroups that you posted makes me wonder if any of the unknown encrypted talkgroups are tied to other systems in the SouthEast or in South Alabama. At a Alabama EMA meeeting I attended I was told that the EMA conducts a monthly net on the system and can talk from one end of the state to the other end. So I'm sure you have one of their talk groups listed there somewhere.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:52 AM
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I found 12 more new talk groups today, and confirmed usage of the following: Most are in the 306## series. I now have 99 Talk Groups and 1222 Radio IDs detected by Pro96Com.

30526 HEMSI Ops 1
30529 HEMSI PAR Paramedics to Hospitals (Encrypted)

30000 - 30005 may be Common Talk Groups. I first thought they were HPD, but have since seen Radio IDs matching 30625 and 30626 as well as many HPD IDs.

HEMSI now has some radios on the system but is still patching their conventional UHF repeaters into the system.

I will appreciate it if any of you can help confirm usage of these Talk Groups. I only have one radio that works on the 700MHz frequencies, so I can't listen and run Pro96Com at the same time. All I can do is listen to the old radio systems on another scanner while running Pro96Com. I am thinking that whomever will be the user of the 306## series to switch over later this week, considering the newber of new talk groups that have show up in the Affiliations list yesterday and today.

Dave
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Old 12-06-2012, 9:25 PM
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sounds like to me that the whole system may go encp,
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Old 12-07-2012, 3:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medic9351301 View Post
sounds like to me that the whole system may go encp,
Not entirely. Law Enforcement, definitely. The Madison County Sheriff has said that he would keep their dispatch talk group open, but all of their tactical talk groups would be encrypted. I am assuming HPD will do the same.

HEMSI so far has only one talk group that is encrypted, which is the talk group that the Medic Units use to talk to the hospitals when they are transporting a patient.

I have no clue what the various fire departments will do. There is an increasingly large series of talk groups starting with 30625 that has been showing up the last few days with only one hit each that shows being encrypted. When I first saw 30625 and 30626 I thought it was Madison County Fire, but they are not going to need and will never use what is approaching 50 talk groups. I am wondering if maybe HPD is going to move to that series after they finish testing with 3, 5, 7, 11 and the 300## talk groups. I am assuming (hopefully not foolishly!) that County Fire would have to keep most of their talk groups in the clear so that VFD members who are not assigned radios will know what is going on before and when they are needed. I think Madison also has some volunteers.

Also, regarding Madison City, I have been told that they may be among the last agencies to move to the P25 system due to lack of funding.

One other thing that we need to keep in mind is that some of the talk groups me be Phase II TDMA. If you do not have a GRE PSR-800 scanner, you are not going to be able to listen to those even if they are not encrypted. That being said, I remember a few weeks ago reading something somewhere online that there is a software method to be able to listen to Phase II TDMA using a Software Defined Radio. Apparently, I failed to bookmark it because I can't find it now. If I do, I will post a link on this thread and a thread covering the other counties on ARCS.

Dave
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