Anchorage Wide Area Radio Network 700 MHz

[Thunderbolt]

Looks like the AWARN is going to be migrating to the 700 MHz band. They have officially petitioned the FCC, to grant them a license for their new Project 25 digital radio system. According to the supporting documents, this new digital network maybe a subsystem to the ALMR TRS, when completed. This should be really interesting to follow once approval is given by the FCC. That being said, it's entirely possible they might even use both the 700/800 MHz bands for this new TRS.

73s

Ron

[kikito]

They have already been testing it live and last I heard they'll start bringing agencies online in November 2008, basically next month. They've also tested the communication between ALMR and AWARN succesfully just a few weeks ago.

Here's more info directly from the "ALMR Insider" newsletter, page 3 has the latest on AWARN:

http://www.ak-prepared.com/almr/pdf/20081015_Vol2Iss4%20(FINAL).pdf

[kikito]

I'm wondering if they're going to be using the new P25 Phase 2 scheme of TDMA 2:1 on the AWARN nodes of the system. Seeing how that FCC letter is listing 2 channel numbers per frequency.... That would kind of suck and hopefully it'll be a wake up call for scanner manufacturers. Maybe someone in the Anchorage area can confirm if they can monitor with the current scanners.

I know it's a sure bet they're using CQPSK/LSM/Simulcast of some sort. That in itself alone will suck, seeing how most areas with that type of modulation makes it kind of unreliable to decode at times but at least you can monitor with current scanners for the most part.

[dougr1252]

Does 2 channels imply 2 carriers, or 2 slots? I thought systems in this band were lumping 2 x 6.25 KHz channels to get 12.5 KHz for normal P25.

[gregmoss]

I don't think it's active yet. I've heard nothing since monitoring the system for two months. It would be nice too get some sort of activity on that system.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by kikito

I'm wondering if they're going to be using the new P25 Phase 2 scheme of TDMA 2:1 on the AWARN nodes of the system.

P25 Phase 2 equipment is not available yet (soon).

Originally Posted by kikito

Seeing how that FCC letter is listing 2 channel numbers per frequency....

That would be because 700 MHz channels are allocated in 6.25kHz widths.

Originally Posted by kikito

Maybe someone in the Anchorage area can confirm if they can monitor with the current scanners.

Should, since it HAS to be P25 phase 1.

Originally Posted by kikito

I know it's a sure bet they're using CQPSK/LSM/Simulcast of some sort. That in itself alone will suck, seeing how most areas with that type of modulation makes it kind of unreliable to decode at times but at least you can monitor with current scanners for the most part.

The Scanner MFGs just have to get up to speed with the technology.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by dougr1252

Does 2 channels imply 2 carriers, or 2 slots?

Neither

Originally Posted by dougr1252

I thought systems in this band were lumping 2 x 6.25 KHz channels to get 12.5 KHz for normal P25.

Yep, you got it.

[kikito]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

P25 Phase 2 equipment is not available yet (soon).

Should, since it HAS to be P25 phase 1.

The Scanner MFGs just have to get up to speed with the technology.

It doesn't HAVE to be Phase 1. The ALMR system up here has always been "ahead of it's time" for a while. When they first started using the VHF 9600 system, NO scanners would work or properly track the system and it caught everybody off guard in the scanner industry. At the time, many people "in the know" on this forums thought it couldn't be possible since they haven't heard of Motorola or any other manufacturer using the 9600 P25 protocol in OBT systems. History might repeat itself again with your words above although I sure hope it doesn't....

[kikito]

Originally Posted by gregmoss

I don't think it's active yet. I've heard nothing since monitoring the system for two months. It would be nice too get some sort of activity on that system.

Is possible you missed the action since something must be transmitting occasionally and during testing a few weeks ago from what I hear. Plus somebody submitted several test TGs. Plus also hearing that they'll start using it sometime in the next few weeks, there should be something going over the airwaves soon. You might also want to check the programming in your radio.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by kikito

It doesn't HAVE to be Phase 1. ..

Yes it does. The equipment is simply not shipping from anyone in any band.

Originally Posted by kikito

The ALMR system up here has always been "ahead of it's time" for a while. When they first started using the VHF 9600 system, NO scanners would work or properly track the system and it caught everybody off guard in the scanner industry. ..

I would not use the scanner industry as a benchmark.

Originally Posted by kikito

At the time, many people "in the know" on this forums thought it couldn't be possible since they haven't heard of Motorola or any other manufacturer using the 9600 P25 protocol in OBT systems. ..

I guess those people were not really "in-the-know".

Yes, someone does have to be first. In this case I would guess it will be one of the contracts that has already been signed for a Phase 2 system.

Originally Posted by kikito

History might repeat itself again with your words above although I sure hope it doesn't....

What is going in WILL NOT be Phase 2.

That does not mean they don't have plans to get there when it is available.

[kikito]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

Yes it does. The equipment is simply not shipping from anyone in any band.

I would not use the scanner industry as a benchmark.

Where do you think they test a lot of the new equipment from Thales, Kenwood and others before is released to the general users? In places and systems like ours. Just because it's not officially "released" or shipping, doesn't mean it's not being used yet in some places, again, as beta testing and certification purposes, etc.

Yes, someone does have to be first. In this case I would guess it will be one of the contracts that has already been signed for a Phase 2 system.

The main reason I originally brought up the rumor that this system could be a Phase 2 was mainly because I thought that was the "recommended" scheme (6.25kHz, TDMA, etc.) to use on the 700MHz band. This being as new a system as they come and with all the hundreds of millions our state has spent already in the latest/greatest in comms, I would think this would be a perfect candidate.

What is going in WILL NOT be Phase 2.

That does not mean they don't have plans to get there when it is available.

So you have an insider providing you this info?

With that, go ahead and get the last word in (as usual), because I think I'm done discussing a subject that is pure speculation on both sides. It started innocent enough as a conversation starter but (as usual) with you, it turns into an ego tug of war....

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by kikito

Where do you think they test a lot of the new equipment from Thales, Kenwood and others before is released to the general users? In places and systems like ours. Just because it's not officially "released" or shipping, doesn't mean it's not being used yet in some places, again, as beta testing and certification purposes, etc.



The main reason I originally brought up the rumor that this system could be a Phase 2 was mainly because I thought that was the "recommended" scheme (6.25kHz, TDMA, etc.) to use on the 700MHz band. This being as new a system as they come and with all the hundreds of millions our state has spent already in the latest/greatest in comms, I would think this would be a perfect candidate.


So you have an insider providing you this info?

With that, go ahead and get the last word in (as usual), because I think I'm done discussing a subject that is pure speculation on both sides. It started innocent enough as a conversation starter but (as usual) with you, it turns into an ego tug of war....

Whatever.

Maybe I don't know?

Maybe you want to bet??

No tug-of-war. "Just the facts, Mame"

[birchwoodnursery]

Does anyone have the current freq for APD 4 ?? Every time they "go to Channel 4" I lose them.. TKX

[kikito]

Originally Posted by birchwoodnursery

Does anyone have the current freq for APD 4 ?? Every time they "go to Channel 4" I lose them.. TKX

It should be what it says in the database: 460.250, here: http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?ctid=70

At least that's what it was a year or so ago last time I was down there....

[Linn]

Thats what it was in July when I was there.