Help, I live in a bowl and no one can hear me!

[kd5ywa]

I live on the outside edge of Trinidad Colorado and right on the edge of a range of mountains. I do not have a tower but that would be awesome if anyone has a spare.... anyways, I am using a Screwdriver Antenna to do SSTV. I can pic up all sorts of images some from Canada and Ukraine but no one ever responds to me! I wonder if anyone out there can see what I am transmitting. I transmit at a power of about 45 watts....

Well, when I got my screwdriver antenna the instructions to how to tune it were... to say the least, a bit confusing since I am kind of new to this "General's license" thing. I just got set up with my own ham station as of about 6 months ago, but I am getting discouraged.

Does anyone know how to tune an screwdriver antenna? have excellent SWR.... so ????

 

[AK9R]

Folks, if you aren't going to answer the OP's question, don't post.

To the OP, what frequency are you transmitting on? What screwdriver antenna do you have? Have you contacted the manufacturer to see if they can help you? Have you tried contacting local hams to see if they can help you? How high is this screwdriver antenna off the ground? What have you done to provide a ground plane for the antenna? Have you tried making any SSB contacts to see if a. you can make a contact and b. get a signal report from the other station?

Just because you can hear other stations with your antenna and just because you have low SWR doesn't mean your antenna will be an effective radiator. Screwdriver antennas are compromise antennas designed for mobile use. You may be able to get it to work in a base location, but it's going to take some work.

 

[kd5ywa]

I believe that the antenna is a MFJ 1664 and I am transmitting at a frequency of 14.230 MHz
I do not have any local Hams, in fact when I went to take my generals test they told me there was no one down here and if I wanted to run an ARES station. I have to get one working first. The antenna is Grounded with a rod, (birthday gift) and it is mounted on the edge of a retaining wall were as it is about 4 feet off the ground to the east and 8 feet off the ground to the west. I also have another problem too. I have a metal roof. It is about 25-30 feet away from the house.

I have not contacted the manufacture but I have grazed through tons of You Tube movies... with no luck.

I have tried all types of modes, packet, feld hell, morse....I don't bother with phone... I figured if I can even get a response with CW, ... geesss.

So.... that where I am at with this problem

I have an idea, I would like to try. I also have a Alpha Delta DXCC that I have never installed. I was thinking about mounting it under the porch of the 2nd Floor horizontally (aka the ceiling of the porch of the 1st floor) and see if I have any luck.

 

[popnokick]

Your description of your screwdriver sounds as though it has an inadequate ground plane / counterpoise. I doubt the metal roof is affecting anything, however you could make it work for you by mounting the screwdriver on top of the metal roof as near the center as possible. Use the metal roof as your ground plane / counterpoise. By all means set up the Alpha Delta DXCC. A horizontal wire antenna like the DXCC may make a huge difference. You also may want to see if you can hear your own signal on any of the many various Internet-accessible tuners, such as websdr.org

 

[kd5ywa]

Awesome I will set up the DXCC. I have been wanting to and I really didn't believe I had a spot for it, until I was inspired by those who put long wires in attics. what's the difference I thought.

Can I make a ground plane with 4 or more radiating wires off the bottom? You think that will help? I actually have a 4 wire ground plane I used for my MFG-2982 "Feather-lite 80-6 meter vertical antenna"

 

[wyShack]

Your antenna is 'key' to the effectiveness of your station. SWR is simply to keep the radio "happy" -cut a dipole for 20 meters ( about 33 feet of wire 'fed' in the middle-formula for total length is 468 divided by frequency in MHz) run coax between the coax and dipole, get the antenna up about 20 feet -even 10 feet. Then use a tuner if you need to. The difference between a full antenna and a screwdriver antenna will amaze you- both for receive and transmitting.

The simple dipole won't work like a beam at 50 feet but may make you thing your screwdriver is 'broken'. Most of the time with a full dipole the 'problem' is nearby electrical noise or 'hearing' more than you want to.

73

 

[WS4JH]

As someone already mentioned the antenna is the key to the station. I have a similar situation here in NC, I am at 3600 feet on a cliff. Great view to the west, in direction of Europe is a 1000 foot higher mountain down the street, and a 700 foot ridge to the south. My question would be can you make other contacts OK, such as PSK? I have worked some SSTV with success, yet I was having to drive an Amp with 25 watts out of my TS-2000, as just running 25 - 50 watts I was also having zero luck at it.

I do run a BTV-6 fully built out with the DXE add-ons, and have close to 40 radials, and still adding as I re-design the garden spot. As for SWR, having a perfect match really does not mean it is good, there is a great read out there in the world of the internet "SWR makes you stupid", give it a Google search. I have some points on my antenna that are close to 2.5 in SWR, but it works fine for contacts.
Wish you luck in your endeavors, and hope to see you on the air sometime.

James WS4JH

 

[AK9R]

Thread continues here:

http://forums.radioreference.com/am...92-yaesu-ft-897-sound-card-digital-modes.html

 

[nanZor]

I live on the outside edge of Trinidad Colorado and right on the edge of a range of mountains. I do not have a tower but that would be awesome if anyone has a spare.... anyways, I am using a Screwdriver Antenna to do SSTV. I can pic up all sorts of images some from Canada and Ukraine but no one ever responds to me!

Living in a bowl, and especially near the edge of the range, means that a vertical would not be your best bet. The natural low-angle radiation from it would be blocked / attenuated by the surrounding environment, and there is very little high-angle radiation to get you out to even the locals, especially at 45 watts.

My suggestion is to use something other than a vertical, such as a dipole, perhaps an inverted-L instead, to get that radiation up and out of the bowl.

You won't have the super-low angle of radiation from a vertical, so you'll have to time your operations to take advantage of propagation during the day / night to do dx, if that's your thing. (Ie, grey-lining etc).

In the meantime, a low-to-medium height dipole, inverted L, with their higher angle of radiation would get your signal out of the bowl at least.

 

[JnglMassiv]

In the meantime, a low-to-medium height dipole, inverted L, with their higher angle of radiation would get your signal out of the bowl at least.

That's what I suggest, too.
In the other thread re: remote station, the OP mentions that other stations are heard. This suggests (generalizing here) that a workable path exists and you just need to get some power back down that path. A basic dipole is inexpensive, adaptable, simple and effective.

I definitely can relate to becoming discouraged with lack of contacts. I run 5 watts max with a marginal attic antenna and get skunked plenty of times, perhaps even more often than not. If I didn't know better, I'd say that I had some equipment problems but on days when it's on, it's really on.

There's a major contest next weekend (ARRL DX SSB) and this would be a great time to try things out again. There will be a ton of stations on the air, both local and DX and if you're getting out at all, you should get some acknowledgement. You have a week to get ready!
Contest summary
Official site

Finally, maybe the OP could set up a time & date and RadioRef members can listen in and see what we can hear?

 

[N8IAA]

Awesome I will set up the DXCC. I have been wanting to and I really didn't believe I had a spot for it, until I was inspired by those who put long wires in attics. what's the difference I thought.

Can I make a ground plane with 4 or more radiating wires off the bottom? You think that will help? I actually have a 4 wire ground plane I used for my MFG-2982 "Feather-lite 80-6 meter vertical antenna"

Have you tried a 1/4 wave antenna? It has a high angle of radiation and might just make it out of your hole. Don't forget a ground plane
Larry

 

[prcguy]

If your suggesting a 1/4 wave vertical with ground plane it has a low angle of radiation and not good in a bowl.
prcguy

Have you tried a 1/4 wave antenna? It has a high angle of radiation and might just make it out of your hole. Don't forget a ground plane
Larry

 

[N8IAA]

If your suggesting a 1/4 wave vertical with ground plane it has a low angle of radiation and not good in a bowl.
prcguy

Yeah, I didn't think that out right.
Larry

 

[KG6ABF]

Have given any thought to an NVIS type or style antenna? I have one here and regularly use it at least once a week on one or more nets on 80 Meters.I have used AM, SSB, CW and even tried some digital modes. It works and I have an 8,000 foot plus Mountain in one direction. I am just a few miles from that mountain and I can get over it signal wise from California to Nevada, Arizona, Colorado etc., most of the time.

Conditions do affect it but for the most part it works well and I can hear and be heard by stations hundreds of miles away.

I developed another antenna to use both a loop and vertical elements for hf which I call a "Bobtail Curtain Loop". It isn't a true Bob-tail curtain nor is it just a loop antenna, it radiates in both the horizontal and vertical planes at the same time. It not difficult to build but depending on your chosen materials can range from inexpensive to $$$.

Just look up N.V.I.S. antennas some are as simple as a low dipole or even a vertical bent over, while others are more involved design wise using mu;tip;e elements, reflecting elements, wires, etc.

If I can be of more assistance feel free to email me. You might also seek out someone more local to you as a club and ask what they use if anything to get beyond the bowl.

 

[wa8pyr]

Have given any thought to an NVIS type or style antenna? I have one here and regularly use it at least once a week on one or more nets on 80 Meters.I have used AM, SSB, CW and even tried some digital modes. It works and I have an 8,000 foot plus Mountain in one direction. I am just a few miles from that mountain and I can get over it signal wise from California to Nevada, Arizona, Colorado etc., most of the time.

Conditions do affect it but for the most part it works well and I can hear and be heard by stations hundreds of miles away.

I developed another antenna to use both a loop and vertical elements for hf which I call a "Bobtail Curtain Loop". It isn't a true Bob-tail curtain nor is it just a loop antenna, it radiates in both the horizontal and vertical planes at the same time. It not difficult to build but depending on your chosen materials can range from inexpensive to $$$.

Just look up N.V.I.S. antennas some are as simple as a low dipole or even a vertical bent over, while others are more involved design wise using mu;tip;e elements, reflecting elements, wires, etc.

If I can be of more assistance feel free to email me. You might also seek out someone more local to you as a club and ask what they use if anything to get beyond the bowl.

Also take a look at a full-wave horizontal loop at the band of interest. It has a high angle of radiation and lower noise compared to a dipole; I have one for 40m in my attic (HOA restricted neighborhood) and it works great on 40 and up, although the radiation angle drops as the frequency increases.

Some people laughingly call antennas like this "cloud warmers" but in this situation is exactly what you want.

 

[KG6ABF]

Also take a look at a full-wave horizontal loop at the band of interest. It has a high angle of radiation and lower noise compared to a dipole; I have one for 40m in my attic (HOA restricted neighborhood) and it works great on 40 and up, although the radiation angle drops as the frequency increases.

Some people laughingly call antennas like this "cloud warmers" but in this situation is exactly what you want.

Great suggestion!!!

 

[SGO]

Have given any thought to an NVIS type or style antenna?

Yes a NVIS antenna is the way to go! The other options would be a 10M to 80M skyloop elevated at about 30' or a small magnetic loop.

SGO