RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Amateur Radio > Amateur Radio Equipment

Amateur Radio Equipment - For general and technical discussion of Amateur Radio equipment such as transceivers, repeaters, controllers and receivers.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2012, 1:02 PM
902's Avatar
902 902 is offline
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Downsouthsomewhere
Posts: 1,693
Default Yaesu FT1DR/E

So, I opened a QST and found this "12.5 kHz C4FM FDMA" FT1DR/E on the back cover. I've never before felt like a description could tell me everything and nothing both at the same time. Any of you know what this is compatible (or maybe better, not compatible) with? For example, would it go through my 2 meter Quantar and be able to communicate with my EFJ 5100 in P25? Or is it something completely different (as if the amateur market needed another different digital protocol)? Anyone have an inside track on whether this thing can talk to anything other than itself (like the Alincos do/did/whatever)?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2012, 8:11 PM
michaeldim's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 30
Default

From what I hear, and this is secondhand mind you, Yeasu said that the digital mode is similar to P25, but entirely incompatible and unique, which to me seems a waste, but hey.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2012, 8:14 PM
N8IAA's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Fortunately, GA
Posts: 5,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 902 View Post
So, I opened a QST and found this "12.5 kHz C4FM FDMA" FT1DR/E on the back cover. I've never before felt like a description could tell me everything and nothing both at the same time. Any of you know what this is compatible (or maybe better, not compatible) with? For example, would it go through my 2 meter Quantar and be able to communicate with my EFJ 5100 in P25? Or is it something completely different (as if the amateur market needed another different digital protocol)? Anyone have an inside track on whether this thing can talk to anything other than itself (like the Alincos do/did/whatever)?
Go to the Digital Voice for Amatuer Use forum a bit futher down from this one. It's been hashed to death since the announcement that Yaesu was going to have digital voice radios. You'll not be the only one who has scratched their head over this topic
Larry
__________________
Digital/Analog scanning and hamming
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2012, 7:05 AM
902's Avatar
902 902 is offline
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Downsouthsomewhere
Posts: 1,693
Default

Thanks, guys. Yeah, it would be... well, you know. See you there.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2012, 2:31 PM
KC2OBW's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wappingers Falls
Posts: 1,531
Default

From what I heard from Yeasue when I was at Dayton. That the C4FM part was not P25 persay but was going to be a yaesu version of digital and also I was told by a Yaesu rep that the radio would also work with Motorola Trbo.
__________________
PRO-197, XTS3000, Astro Saber HT1250, MT2000, HT1000, FT60R, VX8GR, UVD-1P(2/1.25), TM741, FT8800R, DR235T.
WQOK964
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
        
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2012, 5:45 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PALM BEACH, FLORIDA
Posts: 1,223
Default

The whole world waited until Dayton for Yaesu to intro this radio. Sadly it will only talk in digital mode to another FT1DR, so it's quite useless. What a waste!!! GARY N4KVE
__________________
GARY N4KVE
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2012, 6:07 PM
gewecke's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 5,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOONBOOTS View Post
The whole world waited until Dayton for Yaesu to intro this radio. Sadly it will only talk in digital mode to another FT1DR, so it's quite useless. What a waste!!! GARY N4KVE
True. I think it's quite possible that yaesu thought our impulse would be to order that piece of crap with the mistaken impression that this would be a cheaper way to buy a P25 radio without having to deal with moto's protocol issues hoping the amateur radio consumers would bite, but not so much.
Yaesu marketing guru's dropped the ball this time.

73,
n9zas
__________________
"Whatever doesn't kill you...will make you stronger"!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 3:33 PM
902's Avatar
902 902 is offline
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Downsouthsomewhere
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gewecke View Post
Yaesu marketing guru's dropped the ball this time.
Ya know, I wonder about what these amateur radio manufacturers in Japan think of their American market. I've always thought that they are less about performance and practical application, and more about toys and gadgets. I wonder if there is just so much of a cultural divide that they're pushing stuff to a market they just don't understand. At all.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 5:44 PM
JPSan's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 336
Smile Why?

They make theses things so small and (silver) toy looking. The VX series overloaded with functions and features and tiny buttons, let alone menu structure that requires you to either memorize a 1/2" thick manual or buy an after market "cheat sheet manual" to carry with ya to remember what things do what. Again, Yaesu made a toy looking radio and this time they will be able to write off the American market as it isn't compatible with anything used here in the digital realm. I for one really wanted this to be DMR - TRBO compatible.. Oh, well. Build it and they will buy it. Wonder how many suckers will have to be first adapters and just gotta have one? But, I am just beating a dead horse, again. I am quite happy with DMR - TRBO it just works great for me. This weekend a phone call to HRO, a sales rep on the phone KNEW NOTHING about this radio at all!!! Yaesu struck out with this release. Ain't it grand.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2015, 4:55 PM
64larry's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 902 View Post
So, I opened a QST and found this "12.5 kHz C4FM FDMA" FT1DR/E on the back cover. I've never before felt like a description could tell me everything and nothing both at the same time. Any of you know what this is compatible (or maybe better, not compatible) with? For example, would it go through my 2 meter Quantar and be able to communicate with my EFJ 5100 in P25? Or is it something completely different (as if the amateur market needed another different digital protocol)? Anyone have an inside track on whether this thing can talk to anything other than itself (like the Alincos do/did/whatever)?
C4FM FDMA is a new version of digital that is now being explored by many services. With this mode, you can go into the HF bands and listen to military and other digital SSB modes with this. It is new but much better than P25 and DSTAR. The autocorrect is ten times better than these other digital modes. You can setup the Yaesu FT1DR with software to convert between C4FM to P25. In time....this will be very useful as more are converting to this! Your one step ahead in technology!
__________________
Larry - KA6CAI
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2015, 11:19 AM
chief21's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Summer - western NC mountains; Winter - FL west coast
Posts: 126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64larry View Post
You can setup the Yaesu FT1DR with software to convert between C4FM to P25. In time....this will be very useful as more are converting to this! Your one step ahead in technology!

More details, please.

AFAIK, the Yaesu System Fusion (YSF) version of C4FM and P25 are NOT compatible with one another and I am not aware of any software that would turn a YSF radio into a P25 radio. If it's true, I'd like to know more!

-John
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2015, 11:29 AM
MTS2000des's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cobb County, GA PCT 3 Crime Central
Posts: 2,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64larry View Post
You can setup the Yaesu FT1DR with software to convert between C4FM to P25. In time....!
This must be the same software that will decrypt AES-256...let me tell you about a bridge in Brooklyn, NY I can make you a GREAT deal on.
__________________
All opinions, statements, posts, or information made public are those exclusively of the author, and not those of his employer, contractors or associates.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2015, 12:14 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 719
Default

I can confirm that Yaesu's use of C4FM FDMA is NOT compatible with P25, at least the way the FT-1DR comes from the factory. But it does sound better than D-Star. Looks like a "VHS vs Beta home video player" battle is brewing in the amateur radio world...may the best man win!
BG..
__________________
ButchGone
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2015, 12:48 PM
N8IAA's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Fortunately, GA
Posts: 5,511
Default

Well, you know what they say......If you heard it on the internet
Larry
__________________
Digital/Analog scanning and hamming
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2015, 12:56 PM
902's Avatar
902 902 is offline
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Downsouthsomewhere
Posts: 1,693
Default

Guys - C4FM is just a modulation technique to get data from point A to point B. It's not the protocol that runs across it. NXDN and D-STAR are also C4FM, but the protocols are different.

Using C4FM doesn't mean that the equipment is directly able to communicate with one another.

I greatly doubt that anyone will develop a firmware flash to load in the P25 phase I protocol into these radios. If anyone does, it will probably be Yaesu to stretch the product into the P25 market -- and it probably would not be the version available to amateurs, locking out any desirable characteristics hams like (frequency agility...).

Since my original post in 2012, it seems these were intended to be stand-alone products within their own systems and are offered as-is. Can someone "hack" them? I don't see why not, but I sure don't have the time or expertise or equipment or desire to do that.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2015, 5:34 PM
MTS2000des's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cobb County, GA PCT 3 Crime Central
Posts: 2,567
Default New FT-1DR owner first impressions

I took the plunge and picked up an FT-1DR in silver from GigaParts for $279. This is what they call the "HD version" which includes the upgraded 1800mah FNB-102Li battery pack.

I have to say, out of the box, I am impressed. The first thing you are prompted to do upon power up is enter your call sign. Included is a USB programming cable, belt clip that attaches to the battery with TWO screws, and wall wart. The software, firmware and USB cable drivers are available for free on Yaesu's website.

I was able to download all of the above and start programming with no problems. The free ADMS software is pretty basic but easy to deal with.

Radio build quality is superb, very solid feel. All keys have tactile feedback. Audio quality on analog is superb.

One thing I can appreciate about System Fusion is how EASY it is. Just enter a repeater like you an analog repeater and you're on the air. Sure the advanced functions like group monitor require more advanced steps, but basic "I just want to listen and talk" is easy as an analog repeater.

I have not talked on the local Fusion machine I can hit because it's SO BUSY! And the conversation is not the boring "Hi Hi OM" stuff, that's a plus.

I will update this review after I've lived with the radio for a while. But so far I will say for the low price I paid, it's a cool radio. The fact that it is ready to play out of the box with no more costly cables/software to buy is a plus. Can't wait to play with it's built in GPS and other neat stuff. It is A LOT of radio. Also nice that it is MADE IN JAPAN.

Yaesu seems to be innovating and that is a long time coming in the amateur world. The C4FM has two modes: wide 12.5 and narrow. Going to have to play with this and compare audio quality, BER tolerance, etc.

Also, for those who are interested, the so-called "MARS/CAP" mod is easy, typical Yaesu, no tear down needed. There is a rubber plug in the rear chassis, just remove it (pull straight out) and remove the ONLY diode/jumper with a pair of hemostats or micro tipped soldering iron. DO NOT MESS WITH THE LITTLE SWITCH next to it. I take no responsibility if you fubar your HT, or you could always pay the $49 at GigaParts to have them do it for you.


More to come.
__________________
All opinions, statements, posts, or information made public are those exclusively of the author, and not those of his employer, contractors or associates.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2015, 6:03 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 743
Default Yaesu FT1DR/E

Just as Icom did several years ago, they went on a tangent of their own. While D-Star is still with us, no other company picked it up as some thought would happen. Yaesu will be on their own island, except now there is far more competition from DMR (Mototrbo) and other formats. DMR still is the best costwise, uses far less spectrum, and has several manufacturers involved with radios starting in the $200 range. I have tried P25, D-Star, and DMR. Right now DMR wins my dollars.

Last edited by jaspence; 02-07-2015 at 6:08 PM.. Reason: ommission
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2015, 7:22 PM
W9BU's Avatar
Lead Wiki Manager
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
Posts: 3,280
Default

I've had my FT-1DR for about 10 days. I also took advantage of GigaParts' pricing.

It didn't take long for me to get on the air and make a contact on the local Fusion repeater using both analog and digital modes. I have made subsequent digital contacts over a distance that you wouldn't expect a handheld to be effective. I think it's testament to the good sensitivity of the DR-1X repeater.

APRS functions also work well enough, but my Kenwood TH-D72 is a lot easier to use for APRS. I find the FT1-DR user interface to be as obtuse as all heck. Note that I have the same problem with the VX-8GRs that I bought to use as APRS trackers.

I haven't tried the included USB programming cable nor Yaesu's free software.

We have several Fusion repeaters going up in my area, so I think the radio going to be a keeper.
__________________
Lead Wiki Manager and Moderator for the Radio Reference Amateur Radio Forums.

"The whole world's living in a digital dream. It's not really there, it's all on the screen." -- Joe Walsh WB6ACU
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2015, 9:59 PM
gregg22's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: monroe,mich
Posts: 42
Default

location,location,location
Bought one at dayton this year.no fusion repeaters in my area.I thought I would keep it for aprs but ended up selling it because anytime I wanted to change a setting it was buried too deep in menus.it took at least three key presses to change what should be basic settings.I found it to be worse than my vx8r,so I kept the vx8r and sold the ft1
Gregg
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2015, 11:35 PM
MTS2000des's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cobb County, GA PCT 3 Crime Central
Posts: 2,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W9BU View Post
I haven't tried the included USB programming cable nor Yaesu's free software.

We have several Fusion repeaters going up in my area, so I think the radio going to be a keeper.
I do agree the menu/UI is cumbersome, but so are most modern tiny wonderboxes. I usually program all my HT's with software, I am used to it from dealing with part 90 stuff. It's just so much easier to import data and write it to the radio, and take a little time to configure all the options versus trying to swim through menu trees and hold this key down, then this one, etc.

The Fusion repeaters in my area are very active. I too am impressed with the audio quality, and how well they can receive the weak signal from a portable with no "robotics". Made my first contact tonight.

I concur it is a keeper. Certainly rounds out my digital portfolio for ham: P25, NXDN, TRBO and System Fusion.
__________________
All opinions, statements, posts, or information made public are those exclusively of the author, and not those of his employer, contractors or associates.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions