D-STAR Systems

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by WX4JCW

---Begin RANT--- I have experience in P25 and now i purchased a D* ID-880H, to me the arguing is kinda fruitless, both technologies are expensive, i have a friend who works for the Orlando Fire Department who uses P25 Amateur, we have 1 UHF P25 Repeater in the orlando area and it has phenominal coverage, the repeater uses analog and P25, my problem with this whole thread is people cant get along and just accept that whatever works for you is best for you, this is why i don't joing the local ARC, it is a hobby, I operate amateur radio because i find it fun, i am a skywarn spotter because i enjoy it, i was a 911 Dispatcher for EMS/FD for 12 years because i enjoyed it, if someone doesn't enjoy D* or Code or P25 why argue, just get together with those who enjoy that particular aspect of the hobby and leave the others alone. ----END RANT----

as far as D* goes, i have been on since Friday and have checked into several nets across the country, including the SE WX Net which in terms of a hurricane preparadness, i see alot of good that D* will have, and look forward to using it over the road

Hi, Jason. I think we were D-RATSing with the new Beta 0.3.1b4 (now works with the Dongle) last night. I agree with you. Live and let live. This thread was about D-STAR Systems. Somehow it became a debate. It was not intended to be anything about P25. D-STAR is good stuff and growing very fast. I like it because it is the complete package (on one channel) for voice, data, and linking/routing. And the audio sounds real good, plus it is very narrow band. All good advantages!

Phil

[WX4JCW]

Originally Posted by SOFA_KING

Hi, Jason. I think we were D-RATSing with the new Beta 0.3.1b4 (now works with the Dongle) last night. I agree with you. Live and let live. This thread was about D-STAR Systems. Somehow it became a debate. It was not intended to be anything about P25. D-STAR is good stuff and growing very fast. I like it because it is the complete package (on one channel) for voice, data, and linking/routing. And the audio sounds real good, plus it is very narrow band. All good advantages!

Phil

Yeah we were , Heard You today (I am in Dayton/Springfield) but i was having issues programming the radio (my own fault).

now we need to get a repeater in your area so you can use that radio.

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by WX4JCW

Yeah we were , Heard You today (I am in Dayton/Springfield) but i was having issues programming the radio (my own fault).

now we need to get a repeater in your area so you can use that radio.

That day is getting closer! I brought my DV Dongle to the EOC meeting last night (for one person who wanted to see it) and a bunch of people were very interested. Some were ready to buy after the demo I put on with my laptop. If that interest continues to grow, I can see funding from the locals the next logical step as they demand a repeater. I didn't expect that response, but was glad to see it.

And I heard on the D-STAR net last night that Brevard is getting ready to get their's going in Melbourn and also another in Titusville is gettin closer. D-STAR is taking hold in a big way, and even those who were thinking like "who needs it?" are showing interest. It is here to stay and growing very fast.

Phil

[tekshogun]

I've got great interest in it. I used to be one of those "why bother" peopel until I realized its full capabilities. My next VHF/UHF will be a D-STAR capable radio. I had thought about getting the chip for my V82 but at $200 for the UT-118 and the lack of capabilities of the V82 and lack of intuitive control over the radio, it is far from worth it.

My only thing is that I wish more companies would pick up the spec and build more D-STAR.

[WX4JCW]

Originally Posted by tekshogun

I've got great interest in it. I used to be one of those "why bother" peopel until I realized its full capabilities. My next VHF/UHF will be a D-STAR capable radio. I had thought about getting the chip for my V82 but at $200 for the UT-118 and the lack of capabilities of the V82 and lack of intuitive control over the radio, it is far from worth it.

My only thing is that I wish more companies would pick up the spec and build more D-STAR.

I think other companies will, there are already non Icom repeaters out there, d-star is picking up steam so i think it is a matter of time, I don't think Yaesu will do it because of some competing issues, but kenwood will probably.

D-Star is still in the toddler stage, i think the operators are trying to get a consistent standard developed as to how the system will work, it is a learning curve.

the only issue i have is with emergency communications, in order for the system to work the network backbone would have to remain intact, lets say god forbid we had another attack on the US- possibly Nuclear in nature, if the internet backbone goes down, well then d-star would be pretty useless, so HF would still be the best for those situations.

[djg000111]

I am thinking about purchasing a D-Star radio and I am just now starting to look at D-Star information. I do have some concerns about Icom not being "open" about D-Star information. My first roadblock to D-Star information was the Icom web site. To download a brochure on a D-Star Radio I had to Agree to be bounded to some Terms and Conditions for use of the information before I could download a brochure about a D-Star Radio. I did read the Terms and Conditions but it was nonsense (What is Icom trying to protect?). My second roadblock to information was the Icom software. The software is for MS operating systems and no source code is available.

I do believe that digital voice will be the major mode for ham radio. I wished there was a digital voice standard for ham radio that was not just for push-to-talk operators but allowed for experiments and improvements by hams. Icom needs some competition. I am still going to try D-Star, which means, I am going to buy an Icom radio.

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by djg000111

I am thinking about purchasing a D-Star radio and I am just now starting to look at D-Star information. I do have some concerns about Icom not being "open" about D-Star information. My first roadblock to D-Star information was the Icom web site. To download a brochure on a D-Star Radio I had to Agree to be bounded to some Terms and Conditions for use of the information before I could download a brochure about a D-Star Radio. I did read the Terms and Conditions but it was nonsense (What is Icom trying to protect?). My second roadblock to information was the Icom software. The software is for MS operating systems and no source code is available.

I do believe that digital voice will be the major mode for ham radio. I wished there was a digital voice standard for ham radio that was not just for push-to-talk operators but allowed for experiments and improvements by hams. Icom needs some competition. I am still going to try D-Star, which means, I am going to buy an Icom radio.

I think you will like it. Icom makes you "agree" for any information you download...not just D-STAR radios. There is no closed information and Icom does not have any corner on the market. Too much misinformation out there. Anyone can make a D-STAR radio...and I have talked to people who have done home brewed D-STAR repeaters and devices. It is totally open. The AMBE vocoder chip from DVSI (same company who makes the P25 IMBE chip) is the only "closed" device (for both platforms) and is looked at as a $20 part. The DV Dongle uses this chip too (not an Icom product) and lets you onto the whole worldwide network. Slick stuff! And it sounds great. Many new D-STAR users are amazed with it...You can tell when they are gushing about how much they like it. Oh...and no software is even needed to program and use the radio, however it is handy to have as it speeds up the programming. A company called RT systems also sells software for programming (closed source).

I bought an IC-91AD while on sale. It came with free software and a cable from HRO. Great little radio! Limited range, but has dual watch (I put FM on one watch and D-STAR on the other). I also like the call sign and user text messages scrolling on the bottom of the screen. I have an IC-2200H 65W 2m in the house now. It works just fine for basic operation, but I want to trade up to an ID-880H, which has VHF and UHF at 50W. That is the radio to get these days. The price is much lower than a 2820 (out of line price wise), D-STAR is already installed, and it also comes with free programming software (which may also operate the radio and let you send data text and messages like my 91AD software does...not confirmed by me yet). I think you have to buy the cable though ($22), and they say you can either use the clone cable or data cable. Get the data cable, as it will let you send data over the radio as well as program the radio. There are programs like D-Rats and D-Chat that allow you to tap into the data side of the protocol, so the data cable is good to have. Overall I think you will like it. Many who are not within repeater coverage build a kit device called a "D-STAR Hot Spot". This plugs into an analog radio with a 9600 packet jack on it, and they provide a link onto the worldwide gateway. I'm amazed at the enthusiasm out there over this whole D-STAR innovation! Some guys are advancing this technology (like AA4RC...aka Robin Cutshaw...a nice guy and the father of the G-Plus gateway and DV Dongle). Many guys who have nothing to do with ICOM are improving on what JARL and ICOM have introduced. This is a growing technology, but nothing will be obsoleted, so no worries there. More features are being added. So, go for it!

Phil

[grem467]

Phil, are the subscriber radios mixed mode on RX? If im listening in DV can i also hear FM on the same frequency and vice versa?

I realize during normal repeater ops this would not be nessasary, but during simplex it could come in handy..

just curious, not trying to start crap or stir the pot.. just something ive been wondering....


Marc.

[tekshogun]

Originally Posted by WX4JCW

I think other companies will, there are already non Icom repeaters out there, d-star is picking up steam so i think it is a matter of time, I don't think Yaesu will do it because of some competing issues, but kenwood will probably.

D-Star is still in the toddler stage, i think the operators are trying to get a consistent standard developed as to how the system will work, it is a learning curve.

the only issue i have is with emergency communications, in order for the system to work the network backbone would have to remain intact, lets say god forbid we had another attack on the US- possibly Nuclear in nature, if the internet backbone goes down, well then d-star would be pretty useless, so HF would still be the best for those situations.

Very true as I have begun to realize that more. Here in North Carolina there is a ham with lots of skills building D-STAR repeaters out of, I think, GE Master II repeaters and they are up and in full use by a small but growing contingent of hams. I hope to join them soon and add to my mobile and base ham shack.

As for a loss of interenet activity, well, one thing we can rely on, other than (or I should say, along with) HF are those VHF and UHF repeater sites that can link via other means such as microwave backbones and PCRN. Now, for D-STAR, I know there is the 10GHz backbone system designs but I don't know of much of that being done and I'm sure a system can be designed to work similar to PCRN and other over-the-air linking systems for D-STAR.

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by grem467

Phil, are the subscriber radios mixed mode on RX? If im listening in DV can i also hear FM on the same frequency and vice versa?

I realize during normal repeater ops this would not be nessasary, but during simplex it could come in handy..

just curious, not trying to start crap or stir the pot.. just something ive been wondering....


Marc.

No problem, Marc. That is a good question...and the answer is YES if you set a global menu option called "DV Auto Detect" to ON. In reality it is an "FM auto detect" when you have a memory channel programmed as DV (digital). This is not available on every model (such as the 2200H), but is on all newer models and even the ID-800H (as a friend indicated to me).

I tried it on my IC-91AD. It worked, but I turned the option off when distant analog repeaters kept opening the squelch on some of my digital repeater channels. In fact, I just did some research on a feature my 91AD had that my 2200 did not...That was the ability for the channel scan to skip analog transmissions on digital channels (or not). Again, newer radios like the 880, 91AD, 92, 2820, and 80AD all skip over the unwanted mode in scan. The older ID-800 and 2200H do not. It drives me nuts to see the scan hung on an analog signal when I have a channel programmed as digital (nothing heard of course...just sits there until it goes away). That is one reason I'm upgrading to a ID-880H. I like to scan, and I like to have it work the way it should work! Don't we all?

Phil

[djg000111]

Thanks for the good comments to my post. As a result of the comments to my post, I am going to learn more about D-Star and I am going to buy a new Icom Radio (880H or 80AD). This weekend, I am going to the Digital Communications Conference (DCC) in Chicago and attend the Intro to D-Star Digital Voice & Data Session.

I think there is no D-Star activity in my area; however, I do mobile through a lot of cities that have D-Star repeaters.

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by djg000111

Thanks for the good comments to my post. As a result of the comments to my post, I am going to learn more about D-Star and I am going to buy a new Icom Radio (880H or 80AD). This weekend, I am going to the Digital Communications Conference (DCC) in Chicago and attend the Intro to D-Star Digital Voice & Data Session.

I think there is no D-Star activity in my area; however, I do mobile through a lot of cities that have D-Star repeaters.

Yeah, my new ID-880H is a total winner! They did this one right. Everything works very well. Easy to program with the free software and scans like a real radio should...fast and no hangups on cross-mode stuff. I love it!

Have fun in Chicago.

Phil

[JimNS3K]

That's one of the great things about D-Star. Even if you don't have a repeater near you you can get a DV Dongle, and as long as you have internet access the Dongle turns your computer into a D-star radio and you can connect to any D-Star repeater around the world.

Jim, NS3K

[emd001]

ive got a 880h on the way for the pickup. Cant wait to start playing with it.

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by emd001

ive got a 880h on the way for the pickup. Cant wait to start playing with it.

All right! Congrats! Good choice!

I spent the good part of today exploring every feature on my 880. The more I test everything, the more I like this ID-880H. It has better digital decode than the IC-2200H and IC-91AD. It sounds like the digital TX is cleaner too. I'm getting good copy when the signal is in the noise floor (quick switch to analog to check). I'm getting call signs and messages with no S meter reading. And the scan is perfect. All improvements. The DR Repeater List is not of much use since they have no Your Call (UR CALL) entries in the list. I do not need it anyway as I put much into channel memory and special linking stuff into the Your Call memory. I wish there were more than 60 of these! This is where the action is, but I make do.

Speaking of scan...I created a bunch of Programmed Scan limits for the different repeater and simplex ranges and linked them to do a custom Programmed Link Scan I made...just searching out D-STAR activity. IT WORKED! It skips over all the analog noise and sifts out the D-STAR activity. Slick! Now I can travel and search out D-STAR. One minor thing...you have to set the mode in VFO to DV for each band. You also have to set the step size to 5 KHz on 2m and 12.5 on 440 before starting the scan. Even though you can set these in the programming, I see no way they make any difference when you start the scan. Maybe I'm missing something, but it is working and will come in handy during road trips to different D-STAR areas.

I created a file for Florida that has everything you need to get up and running fast. I maxed out every option. This is a killer file with a template that will allow you to do all the D-STAR features and (of course)also do analog. Maybe I will post it so anyone who wants to know "how to" make D-STAR play (and use the radio features to their best advantage) can look at it and get an idea. Icom lets you download the software for the radio for free, so loading my file into that will give you instant access to the way I programmed the radio and set up the features. Default setting are not the best options. I also made a text file explaining the conventions and reasons why I set up the radio the way I did. I am think of posting it in the Equipment section. If anyone is interested, PM me here.

Enjoy the new radio, emd001! I know you will.

Phil

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by JimNS3K

That's one of the great things about D-Star. Even if you don't have a repeater near you you can get a DV Dongle, and as long as you have internet access the Dongle turns your computer into a D-star radio and you can connect to any D-Star repeater around the world.

Jim, NS3K

Very true. It is worth the money. You get to hear what is going on around the world.

NEWS FLASH:

Florida now has another two D-STAR repeaters. KI4WZA has a 2m and 70 cm system in Milton, FL.

That makes 15 - 2m repeaters, 16 - 440 repeaters, and 7 - 23 cm repeaters. There is also 6 high speed data 23 cm machines. People who use it are having a blast. Don't miss out...D-STAR is growing fast.

Phil