Are the ham repeaters this dead everywhere now?

[metrowest]

"How does TRBO voice quality compare to D-STAR, in your opinion? I think both sound better than P25, and TRBO sounds slightly better than D-STAR."

I think Mototrbo sounds MUCH better than D-star. D-star has a AM transistor radio sound. (thin and tinny)
Trbo has a much better sound and you can adjust various aspects of your audio. But also the person on the other end needs to have their audio set up properly. I never heard P 25 so I can’t comment on how it compares to mototrbo.

[KC2OBW]

I think D star and TRBO both suck audio wise.


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[metrowest]

LMAO!!!!!
You need to hook up with some trbo people and listen to the audio quality. I do agree with your D-star opinion the audio is brutal and the R2D2 just makes you want to find another alternative.

[KC2OBW]

Originally Posted by metrowest

LMAO!!!!!
You need to hook up with some trbo people and listen to the audio quality. I do agree with your D-star opinion the audio is brutal and the R2D2 just makes you want to find another alternative.

We use TRBO at work and I'm not a big fan of it. We are on a connect plus system. The audio sounds OK when everyone is affiliated to the same site. But when someone affiliates to a different site and when the audio is linked over to the site everyone else is affiliated on it sounds like crap (that could be how the vendor has it set up) but I have also on many occasions witnessed missed calls my supervisor would call me came across on my co workers radio but not mine. I answered back on mine and it wouldn't go through.

Trbo audio is better then D star but they are both crap and I'm speaking from my expectancies.


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[902]

Originally Posted by KC2OBW

I think D star and TRBO both suck audio wise.

I've never used TRBO, but DSTAR and P25 are super compared to iDEN or over highly compressed digital cellular. Can't say how many times I've told people just to call my office number because I was straining to understand what they were saying. The future of communication (i.e., I say something, you understand it and comply - not the nifty factor of a human voice going into a bonkulator, getting chopped up by the franitz, and then recreated on a molecular level "over there" by the cyclotronic demodulator) does not seem to be enhanced by digital. Either that, or having grown up with a strong base in analog has permanently scarred me.

[W2IBC]

Originally Posted by 902

I've never used TRBO, but DSTAR and P25 are super compared to iDEN or over highly compressed digital cellular. Can't say how many times I've told people just to call my office number because I was straining to understand what they were saying. The future of communication (i.e., I say something, you understand it and comply - not the nifty factor of a human voice going into a bonkulator, getting chopped up by the franitz, and then recreated on a molecular level "over there" by the cyclotronic demodulator) does not seem to be enhanced by digital. Either that, or having grown up with a strong base in analog has permanently scarred me.

I absolutly hate digital. can not stand chop out. I got rid of my TV when the OTA stations went digital DTV is crap.

someone calls me on a cell phone and they are doing the chop out. i hang up on them. and when they call back ill pick up and say "you better be on a real phone that uses the red and green pair or im just going to hang up again"

[k3cfc]

Originally Posted by W2IBC

I absolutly hate digital. can not stand chop out. I got rid of my TV when the OTA stations went digital DTV is crap.

someone calls me on a cell phone and they are doing the chop out. i hang up on them. and when they call back ill pick up and say "you better be on a real phone that uses the red and green pair or im just going to hang up again"

I hope i never have to depend on you in a life and death situation.

[W5JER]

Originally Posted by W2IBC

I absolutly hate digital. can not stand chop out. I got rid of my TV when the OTA stations went digital DTV is crap.

someone calls me on a cell phone and they are doing the chop out. i hang up on them. and when they call back ill pick up and say "you better be on a real phone that uses the red and green pair or im just going to hang up again"

Yet you use Echolink? Sorry, I couldn't help but notice.

[k3cfc]

Echo link has absolutely nothing to do with digital period!!

K3CFC

[W2IBC]

Originally Posted by k3cfc

I hope i never have to depend on you in a life and death situation.

chances are you wont.

but if you do. use non digital radio and everything will be ok.

[N8OHU]

Originally Posted by k3cfc

Echo link has absolutely nothing to do with digital period!!

K3CFC

Sure it does, or did you think that the audio was actually sent the same way it comes out of an analog transceiver? Pretty much any Voice over Internet Protocol system is digital rather than analog, even if a lot of people think otherwise.

[k3cfc]

Is EchoLink a digital mode?

No. EchoLink is an extension of conventional voice modes, particularly FM. EchoLink communicates over the Internet digitally, but does not transmit any digital signals over the air

Originally Posted by N8OHU

Sure it does, or did you think that the audio was actually sent the same way it comes out of an analog transceiver? Pretty much any Voice over Internet Protocol system is digital rather than analog, even if a lot of people think otherwise.

[W9BU]

Deleted.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by metrowest

"How does TRBO voice quality compare to D-STAR, in your opinion? I think both sound better than P25, and TRBO sounds slightly better than D-STAR."

I think Mototrbo sounds MUCH better than D-star. D-star has a AM transistor radio sound. (thin and tinny)
Trbo has a much better sound and you can adjust various aspects of your audio. But also the person on the other end needs to have their audio set up properly. I never heard P 25 so I can’t comment on how it compares to mototrbo.

TRBO has forward error correction, D-star does not. TRBO sounds way better than D-Star, done a side by side comparison. Of course it's difficult to compare actual audio quality, as you can't buy a commercial D-Star radio, and the 91AD has the atypical joke of a speaker with wimpy 300mw of audio output whereas my XPR6500 has a full 700mw of loud, full range audio you can actually HEAR.

You would think with what Icom wants for their D-star portables, they would actually be of LMR quality, but after being inside my 91AD and a 92AD, they are built as cheaply and as flimsy as the typical $150 dual band HT.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by 902

I've never used TRBO, but DSTAR and P25 are super compared to iDEN or over highly compressed digital cellular. Can't say how many times I've told people just to call my office number because I was straining to understand what they were saying. The future of communication (i.e., I say something, you understand it and comply - not the nifty factor of a human voice going into a bonkulator, getting chopped up by the franitz, and then recreated on a molecular level "over there" by the cyclotronic demodulator) does not seem to be enhanced by digital. Either that, or having grown up with a strong base in analog has permanently scarred me.

Digital can outperform analog, IF given the needed BANDWIDTH to do it. That's the problem, most digital voice codecs are designed for LOWEST possible bandwidth transport mediums.

Digital codecs used by cellphone carriers are the poorest, exception being the older 2G GSM with a full rate codec enabled (legacy mode IIRC). It can pass for "toll grade" and with a good handset, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between this and an analog twisted pair. Back in 2006 when I had T-Mobile in Atlanta, my Motorola V330 always had the clearest, richest audio on both the incoming and outgoing audio. I never had anyone complain and often times people would be surprised to find out I was calling them on a cellphone.

It's only when cellphone companies starting compressing voice bandwidth to the max to make way for data did the audio quality go to crap. When Cingular went to their half rate codec on their old 2G network, it was painful to take calls from people. They sounded like they were underwater, garbled, mufffled and distorted sounds. Reminds me of P25 phase 1.

But don't fret 902, Sprint and Verizon have "heard you now" and now offer HD calling on their LTE networks with equipped devices:

Verizon's HD LTE Voice Calling: Hands On | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

[N8OHU]

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

TRBO has forward error correction, D-star does not. TRBO sounds way better than D-Star, done a side by side comparison. Of course it's difficult to compare actual audio quality, as you can't buy a commercial D-Star radio, and the 91AD has the atypical joke of a speaker with wimpy 300mw of audio output whereas my XPR6500 has a full 700mw of loud, full range audio you can actually HEAR.

Hmm, where to start... For one thing, the only thing that is not protected by Forward Error Correction in D-Star's DV mode is the Slow Data segment. Secondly, it's apples and oranges, since they aren't even the same bandwidth (12.5 kHz DMR vs 6.25 kHz D-Star). Finally, I have no idea where you use your radio that you need to turn it all the way up; I rarely turn my IC-91A up past 33% and I can hear it just fine. Now, I will need an external speaker for my ID-880, since it's mounted up under the passenger seat in my Trailblazer, and I have little choice but to turn it up to hear it when using it mobile.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by N8OHU

Hmm, where to start... For one thing, the only thing that is not protected by Forward Error Correction in D-Star's DV mode is the Slow Data segment. Secondly, it's apples and oranges, since they aren't even the same bandwidth (12.5 kHz DMR vs 6.25 kHz D-Star). Finally, I have no idea where you use your radio that you need to turn it all the way up; I rarely turn my IC-91A up past 33% and I can hear it just fine. Now, I will need an external speaker for my ID-880, since it's mounted up under the passenger seat in my Trailblazer, and I have little choice but to turn it up to hear it when using it mobile.

The 6.25 vs 12.5...well let's see. I've installed and drive tested a dual mode NXDN UHF repeater, setup for 12.5KHz analog and 6.25 digital. And guess what, the NXDN at 6.25 outperformed D-star in weak signal conditions bar none.

But I got back to the subscriber radio. The ID-91/92AD are cheap toys. Sorry, if someone pays LMR pricing for a subscriber radio, they should get LMR quality. How loud do I need a portable to get? Loud enough to deliver CLEAR audio in a moving car, loud and CLEAR enough to be heard on a city street without having to strain and hold the portable directly to my ear. The D-star portables fall way short, typical cheap ham crap- but without the cheap ham price. If they were sub $200 radios, I wouldn't complain. But for over $400 for the ID-91 and almost $600 for the 92AD, I expect better as do most. Reading the reviews on E-ham of these radios, I'm not the only one with the gripe. The radios aren't built that well either, I've had both apart to perform "service" and quite frankly, these are way overpriced for what they are.

I guess I am just spoiled using Motorola, Kenwood and yes, even Icom LMR. Granted, you will probably call it "apples to oranges" but in the end, the technology under the hood is the same. I expect more for my money. Not to mention, the UI on D-star radios is deplorable. The process of making simple local or networked calls is awkward. On DMR or NXDN, it's select the mode, and key up. No wondering "did I just key the gateway, or am I on the local side"? If you get it wrong, you can still be hearing gateway traffic but talking locally.

On DMR, if you're on the wrong TS/CC, you hear nothing and no one hears you. Isn't that how it SHOULD be?

I have yet to try the 31A, but will hold out for the 51.

[N8OHU]

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

Not to mention, the UI on D-star radios is deplorable. The process of making simple local or networked calls is awkward. On DMR or NXDN, it's select the mode, and key up. No wondering "did I just key the gateway, or am I on the local side"? If you get it wrong, you can still be hearing gateway traffic but talking locally.

On DMR, if you're on the wrong TS/CC, you hear nothing and no one hears you. Isn't that how it SHOULD be?

I have yet to try the 31A, but will hold out for the 51.

Well, I will agree that there are problems with linking, but I won't go so far as to blame Icom for them, as they are not part of the D-Star Specification; those are add on features created by hams, and yes, they work in a way that makes little sense to me. If I want to talk on the local repeater, I shouldn't have to do anything more than program in the basic information required; if I want to do anything else, I should have to change the UR Call as required to route the traffic.

[mikepdx]

back to: Are the ham repeaters this dead everywhere now?

Of course email, cell phones, etc. have had
a big impact on the lack of use.

Also, I think a lot of people tune to a repeater or spx freg,
hang around a few minutes and only listen for activity.
Hearing nothing, they 'pull the plug'.

When just about everybody does this,
it's no wonder the machines are dead.

Don't just listen. Throw out your call just for the heck of it.

You may meet a new friend, thrill a new ham with his or her first QSO,
or possibly give or gain some much needed knowledge and experience.

Value this resource you have available 24/7 because, as they say,
Use it or lose it...You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

73
God bless the U S of A with it's many privileges. Like ham radio for one...

[TheSpaceMan]

I agree. Always keep your 2m and 440 radios on and scanning, and make a fairly determined effort to establish contacts! Announce several times that you are listening, and ask other hams for radio checks often. If hams just put half the effort into making new contacts on VHF and UHF as they do on HF, we would see a lot more activity on the repeaters!