Lots of used commercial radios now available, Examiner.com article

[KB1YLD]

I was just more curious if it was at all possible. It's clearly more practical to get a new narrow band radio. I have no reason nor capabilities to do it. Just wondering if it was physically possible. Thanks

[KG4INW]

Oh, sure, it's possible on some models, from that angle.

[k3td]

It is possible to convert a transceiver to operate in a narrower bandwidth, but the cost and work involved to re-engineer the transmitter and receiver make it impractical. In addition, it would probably cost more and take more time than the effort is worth.

Even if you did that, the radio could not be used for anything except amateur radio or GMRS purposes. FCC radios for Part 90 VHF and UHF services must be certified by the manufacturer with the FCC for narrowband operation.

[N8OHU]

Originally Posted by KG4INW

No. They'd have to then go through the complete FCC certification process again, by the manufacturer. Hence, why so many WB radios are now available.

Some of them had the option available, but not all of them; even then, it won't really be worth it, since they can't be programmed to properly take advantage of the narrower bandwidth. There are some Motorola GM300's that had the option, but those can't be programmed to use the 12.5kHz tuning steps, for example.

[Wyandotte]

Originally Posted by N8OHU

Some of them had the option available, but not all of them; even then, it won't really be worth it, since they can't be programmed to properly take advantage of the narrower bandwidth. There are some Motorola GM300's that had the option, but those can't be programmed to use the 12.5kHz tuning steps, for example.

GM300's were manufactured either narrow or wide.
You cannot change from one to the other with software.
As a general rule of thumb, if it does NOT say "Radius" on the front of it, it's probably a narrowband radio. This isn't a hard fast rule, but of the many radios I've dealt with, this has held true each time.
The same is true of the GP300 handhelds. Anything with the word Radius on the front has been wideband.

[N8OHU]

Originally Posted by Wyandotte

GM300's were manufactured either narrow or wide.
You cannot change from one to the other with software.

I never meant to imply that you could; all I was pointing out is that the wideband modifications needed other changes in the radio for them to have any real usefulness. I assume that most of the truly narrowband radios had different RSS software that could program them for the additional channel capacity that was made available.

[Wyandotte]

Originally Posted by N8OHU

I never meant to imply that you could; all I was pointing out is that the wideband modifications needed other changes in the radio for them to have any real usefulness. I assume that most of the truly narrowband radios had different RSS software that could program them for the additional channel capacity that was made available.

I just wanted to throw that out there and let folks know that some GP and GM300's can be narrowband.
Many vendors, including mine, are telling people ALL GP and GM300's need to be replaced.
If I hadn't of stumbled across a Moto doc here on RR showing the model numbers of the ones that are narrow, and the ones that are not, I would of threw out about two dozen perfectly fine radios.
Same software to program both, by the way.

[MTS2000des]

The biggest reason many dealers do advise replacement on the early radios capable of narrowband like the GM300's is that they cannot do the newer "splinter" channels. For example, the GM300 narrowband, like a Kenwood TK-250G, will NOT program to the 7.5KHz synthesizer steps, like 158.8225.

So for this reason, the manufacturers recommend replacement as their are hardware limitations in the synthesizers. If the owners get assigned a splinter or add/change their license in the future and are assigned a splinter channel, these older legacy radios will not accept programming on the newer frequencies.

This is the reason the market is flooded with radios like TK-250G's, Vertex VX-2000's, early HT1000/MT2000 radios made before Oct 1997, etc.

But all of the above are great for ham use and better than any cheap ham toy radios in all respects.

[990adv]

Enjoying the discussion gentlemen.

I have a couple more questions. Are most of the commercial radios built to be non field programmable? Also, do most only display a number? I enjoy either being able to see the actual frequency or the repeater "name" being displayed.

[KG4INW]

Yes, most Part 90 radios are not keypad programmable, per FCC rules. The few that do were usually made for Federal agencies who were governed by the NTIA and not the FCC or the radio required some hardware key and password to make it difficult to FPP.

As for the display, it really depends on the model. Many are just numbers while many have bigger displays. I've found that I very much prefer commercial radio displays as they tend to allow far more characters than purpose-built ham rigs. For instance, my Yaesu FT-60R has a 6 character display but my Motorola XTS 5000 has 12 characters and multiple lines (granted, I can't fill all lines but it's still far more info that's conveyed).

[MTS2000des]

Some Kenwood radios (the TK-2180/3180) could be ordered with an option known as Tactical Feature Set, which includes field programming capability. The option was supposedly restricted to Federal/NTIA customers and "approved agencies only". But I know several who were able to order it without a problem. I have an Icom IC-F2821 UHF P25 mobile that can do Field Programming.

One note about field programmable LMR: some are more intuitive than others. The XTS5000/2500, has about the easiest and most flexible field programming, some radios aren't so fun. The Icom radio I mentioned, field programming is a PITA. I have an HYT TC-580 which also allows you to edit frequencies and tones, but it is far from easy. And also, keep in mind, most field programmable radios require you to touch the radio via PC software first to define specific zones or channels as being editable, and there are still things you may NOT be able to change without software and cable, such as scan lists, optional signaling (like 2 tone decode, MDC1200, P25 radio IDs, etc).

And of course there are no "VFO" modes. You are either programming or operating the radio.

As far as displays, most more modern radios have lots of display room. The MT2000/MTS2000 with front panel displays can support up to 14 characters. The MCS2000 model III mobile radio has one of the nicest 2 line 14 character displays of any radio- one line can be used for zone names and the other for channel names. The MTS2000 and MCS2000 were designed to be "kissing cousins" of each other, and while they use different software, the Windows version allows one to easily "drag and drop" programing data from one radio to another, to make them virtually identical in their configurations. These were some of the first Motorola radios to be sold this way as "companion products".

I personally like the MTS2000/MCS2000's. They can be found in VHF and UHF versions of all kinds for as little as $40 nowadays if you know where to look. They are well made, have great performance, and the Windows based CPS is pretty decent once you become accustomed to it. They also made 900MHz versions which can do the 928/902 repeater splits by modifying the programming software.