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Old 01-02-2013, 7:00 PM
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Default Can Unlicensed Persons Operate my Equipment under my Supervision?

I'm a licensed ham with a friend who is interested in joining the hobby. I want to let him try out my equipment and get a feel for the hobby before he invests any time or money in it, to see if he is truly interested.

If I understand the rules correctly, he can operate my equipment if I am present, correct? And if he is allowed to use my radio under my supervision, do I have to "sign him on/off" the air? How does he identify himself: simply with my callsign, or do I say "KD2DAX, I have a unlicensed person that will now operate under my supervision..."

I'm sure this sounds very juvenile, but I've been wondering for a while and I'm still new to all this.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-02-2013, 7:04 PM
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As the rules state, yes, he/she can operate under your direct supervision. As for ID procedures, I've never actually heard it done, so I am curious to know if there is an official procedure or not myself.
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Old 01-02-2013, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillydjdan View Post
As the rules state, yes, he/she can operate under your direct supervision. As for ID procedures, I've never actually heard it done, so I am curious to know if there is an official procedure or not myself.


Thanks. That is what I was thinking, but I just wanted to double-check to put my mind at ease. The identification is what I am really curious about as well...
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Old 01-02-2013, 7:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriepascannist View Post
I'm a licensed ham with a friend who is interested in joining the hobby. I want to let him try out my equipment and get a feel for the hobby before he invests any time or money in it, to see if he is truly interested.

If I understand the rules correctly, he can operate my equipment if I am present, correct? And if he is allowed to use my radio under my supervision, do I have to "sign him on/off" the air? How does he identify himself: simply with my callsign, or do I say "KD2DAX, I have a unlicensed person that will now operate under my supervision..."

I'm sure this sounds very juvenile, but I've been wondering for a while and I'm still new to all this.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, the person/friend or who ever can operate your ham radio items with your supervision. If your talking to someone and your friend is wanting to speak with that person all you have to do say is...KD2DAX with third party traffic (your friend) and then is where your friend talks to the fellow ham your speaking to.
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Old 01-03-2013, 5:31 AM
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So just to clarify, my friend never has to identify on-air? And though it is unlikely, should he be on-air for more than 10 minutes with someone I would do the identification for him with my callsign?

Thanks again for the replies!
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Old 01-03-2013, 8:04 AM
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Why don't you read Part 97 yourself instead of relying on misinformaton from people on an internet forum?
eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations
97.115 covers third party operation and 97.119 covers station identification.
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Old 01-03-2013, 3:46 PM
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As already posted, yes, you can do that and you would be the 'control' operator. There's no particular 'ID' requirements. Your friend would behave like you would in ID'ing.
Of course there can be/are 'catches' to that. Reading the Part-97 is certainly a good idea. Then you have to decide.
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Old 01-03-2013, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriepascannist View Post
So just to clarify, my friend never has to identify on-air? And though it is unlikely, should he be on-air for more than 10 minutes with someone I would do the identification for him with my callsign?

Thanks again for the replies!
Basically they would be operating as if they were you in that situation and it'll be you on the hook for anything that they may do wrong, not them since they're operating under your license and control. If they don't ID in time, you (as the control operator) should do so for them to keep you legal. You'll need to make sure that they keep the VFO on frequencies and modes where you're licensed to operate. If they start talking about stuff that's not legal (or appropriate) for you to use, you'll need to interrupt and stop them (generally this would be stuff like business related conversations or inappropriate language, but you get the idea).

Remember that as the control operator, it's you that are responsible for what they do and say. Any associated violations will be in your name, not theirs since it's your license that's being operated under.
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Old 01-03-2013, 4:53 PM
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Like he said.

The rule simply states that an unlicensed person may talk on but technically not operate a ham station as long as the licensee is present and actively supervising as a "control operator". Nobody's going to know whose hands are on the controls ao as long as you're there that's all that matters. Of course the terms of your license class are not to be exceeded.

There's more to it although the question wasn't asked but just for the heck of it more or less applies to two different license classes. In this situation both may operate under the terms of the higher class and identify with that person's callsign. At one time I operated K2PG from DC to light as Phil holds Amateur Extra. It would be just a little strange to find KB2VXA in the General part of the band. (;->)

As for that third party thing, if you're in QSO and your friend wants to say something simply say "hold on, I have someone who wants to talk to you" and hand him the mic. Your friend can carry on as long as he likes and ID with your callsign, all perfectly legal. I never went into detail, it only tends to confuse people, just operated as K2PG.
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Old 01-03-2013, 6:53 PM
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Thanks for all the replies. I now have a clear picture what is needed, although I'm going to read those sections of part 97 anyways just to make sure. I realize the "risks," and and I trust this person and know he will be legal, although of course I am right there to stop him if he's not.

Sorry if people are offended by me asking this here. I was short of time all week and just wanted a plain English resolution to the problem so I can tell my friend. I will be reading part 97 just to make sure though.

Thank you all again.
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Old 01-03-2013, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n5ims View Post
...If they start talking about stuff that's not legal (or appropriate) for you to use, you'll need to interrupt and stop them (generally this would be stuff like business related conversations or inappropriate language, but you get the idea)...
@EriePaScannist:

In addition to standing-by ready to guide their conversations, giving them a good clear explanation of the behaviorial-boundaries before allowing them to use your equipment should help prevent situations where you would need to interrupt and provide a conversational course-correction. Most friends will "play nice" especially if they know that any bad behavior on their part will also put you and your license at risk, too.

Thanks for encouraging others toward responsibly enjoying amateur radio. Good job.

Hope this helps,
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Old 01-03-2013, 8:12 PM
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Basically, if your friend is not a moron, and you are hanging out with him and want to let him chat on the repeater, it should be fine. I'd introduce him to the people I'm in QSO with, and tell them he is interested in getting his ticket. Most hams will be very friendly and he will have a good time. I wouldn't let someone operate my station without me present, and I would remind him about ID'ing if needed. Don't sweat it too much. Most amateurs will be very understanding and helpful in the situation you describe, even if you missed ID'ing at the correct time. Just don't act silly or curse or anything.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:24 PM
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Well I'm excited more hams in the making!! If you could worm me I would gladly talk to you guys!! I'm like a kid in a candy store so far!! I can't wait for field day!! The next big hamfest!! Getting my general so I have a excusebtonguy a HF rig and slap a antenna somewhere!! But for now it's repeaters I can hit and anybody who desires to conservate with me!! Honestly it's mostly guys in my club on the local repeater but for me it's still a blast!!!
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:28 PM
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Rules are pretty clear to me:

You as a licensee are responsible for all transmissions that come from your station. Any third party traffic means you must be present at the control point to disable the transmitter should any violation of part 97 occur. You must be in control of the equipment at all times. You are still responsible to make sure that your station identification is given per part 97, that no violations occur during traffic(no one goes all Howard Stern), and no traffic not permissible under part 97 (business/commercial traffic, playing of music, etc) occur and that all emergency traffic is yielded to.

That said, have fun and welcome a potential new ham to the hobby.
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Old 01-04-2013, 5:36 AM
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Thanks guys. I will explain the rules of ID'ing and the types of things that cannot be discussed with him before he gets on the air, and I'll make a few QSO's to show him how it's done. He will understand, I'm sure, and I am right with you all in being excited at the potential for another new ham in the area.
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Old 01-04-2013, 8:31 AM
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This is a good thread, it showed me how to do third party operating too.
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Old 01-04-2013, 1:43 PM
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"... I'm going to read those sections of part 97 anyways just to make sure."

Absolutely right, as with anything on the internet never take it as gospel, always do your homework and verify the facts. I explained in an easy to understand way simply because the way the rule is written still some are unsure and question small points.

"Sorry if people are offended by me asking this here."

Why should anyone be offended by asking a valid question? Those who teach and guide other hams are known as elmers and that's exactly what we're here for. Anyone offended by his job is in the wrong business.

"Well I'm excited more hams in the making!!"

That's how I joined the service, a couple of friends introduced me by allowing me to use their radios and having far more potential than CB I was in years ago I hopped aboard. BTW they were friends back in my CB daze so their arm twisting showed me the light.

I was already blinded with science and blinded by the light, ripped off by a deuce another runner in the night I took off. Hey hoser, take off!

Oh dear, too many song references...
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Old 01-04-2013, 3:40 PM
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I only felt bad because I feel like sometimes I use these forums too often instead of doing the work myself. But I am surely glad for all the help I've gotten on here, it has really helped me in both scanning and amateur radio. Good song references too lol!

Glad I could help RT!
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Old 02-11-2013, 7:55 AM
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Part 95.115 covers your question. Others have made good comments, however I will add a note of caution:

"(c) No station may transmit third party communications while being automatically controlled except a station transmitting a RTTY or data emission."

This means that your friend may not talk on repeaters since they are "automatically controlled." Even if you are sitting there as a control operator. Bummer. (Except for RTTY and data.)
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Old 02-11-2013, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill4long View Post
Part 95.115 covers your question. Others have made good comments, however I will add a note of caution:

"(c) No station may transmit third party communications while being automatically controlled except a station transmitting a RTTY or data emission."

This means that your friend may not talk on repeaters since they are "automatically controlled." Even if you are sitting there as a control operator. Bummer. (Except for RTTY and data.)

That certainly is interesting and a bummer on top! Thanks for the heads-up though!
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