Old Call Research

[oldcallsign]

Help - K9PMF is my old callsign, issued to me, Scott Perkins, Peoria, Illinois in 1958 or '59. I went into the service and let it expire. Just past the new Tecnicians exam and need an old callbook page copy for proof to upgrade to General.
Would appreciate any help here.
Tnx,
oldcallsign

 

[Rt169Radio]

Doesn't the FCC have it on file?

 

[WB4CS]

Help - K9PMF is my old callsign, issued to me, Scott Perkins, Peoria, Illinois in 1958 or '59. I went into the service and let it expire. Just past the new Tecnicians exam and need an old callbook page copy for proof to upgrade to General.
Would appreciate any help here.
Tnx,
oldcallsign

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do here...

Are you saying that if you show proof of your old call you'll instantly be a General Class? If so, I don't believe it works that way. If your license expired you'll have to take the current General Class exam. I would have to check Part 97 rules, but best of my knowledge is you cannot present an old license that has expired and regain your license class without taking the exam. Once a license expires and the two year grace period for renewal ends, the license is canceled.

If you're needing this so you can try to get your old call sign as a Vanity Call, then as long as the call sign is available and you hold the correct license class for that callsign, you can request it. When you fill out the paperwork for a Vanity, there is a box to check that states this was a previous call sign of yours. The FCC should be able to verify. You can check the status of Vanity Call availability and information about the rules of getting a Vanity call at N4MC's Vanity HQ

Doesn't the FCC have it on file?

I believe the FCC has the ability to verify this, but the online database at the FCC ULS only goes back to around the early 2000's.

 

[Token]

Are you saying that if you show proof of your old call you'll instantly be a General Class? If so, I don't believe it works that way. If your license expired you'll have to take the current General Class exam. I'm just starting out as a VE giving tests and would have to check Part 97 rules, but best of my knowledge is you cannot present an old license that has expired and regain your license class without taking the exam. Once a license expires and the two year grace period for renewal ends, the license is canceled.

I think, but not 100% sure, that if you hold a current Technician license and can prove that you held a valid General (maybe even Tech) license prior to 1987 that you can upgrade to General. I know this was done to upgrade some new Techs (relicensed after 1992) to General after the General code requirement was dropped to 5 WPM.

T!

 

[aaron315]

Help - K9PMF is my old callsign, issued to me, Scott Perkins, Peoria, Illinois in 1958 or '59. I went into the service and let it expire. Just past the new Tecnicians exam and need an old callbook page copy for proof to upgrade to General.
Would appreciate any help here.
Tnx,
oldcallsign

There is no online resource that holds the data that you are looking for. This is going to be a paper search.

I would suggest calling around to some of the long established libraries and see if you can find one that has retained copies of old call books. It may take some time, but they are out there somewhere.

 

[WB4CS]

I think, but not 100% sure, that if you hold a current Technician license and can prove that you held a valid General (maybe even Tech) license prior to 1987 that you can upgrade to General. I know this was done to upgrade some new Techs (relicensed after 1992) to General after the General code requirement was dropped to 5 WPM.

T!

I researched Part 97, you may be on to something.(See my edit note below)

97.21:

(b) A person whose amateur station license grant has expired may apply to the FCC for renewal of the license grant for another term during a 2 year filing grace period. The application must be received at the address specified above prior to the end of the grace period. Unless and until the license grant is renewed, no privileges in this part are conferred.

97.505:

(a) The administering VEs must give credit as specified below to an examinee holding any of the following license grants or license
documents:
(2) An unexpired (or expired but within the grace period for renewal) FCC-granted General Class operator license grant: Elements 2 and 3.
(3) An unexpired (or expired but within the grace period for renewal) FCC-granted Technician or Technician Plus Class operator (including a Technician Class operator license granted before February 14, 1991) license grant: Element 2.
(4) An expired FCC-issued Technician Class operator license document granted before March 21, 1987; Element 3
5(b) No examination credit, except as herein provided, shall be allowed on the basis of holding or having held any other license grant or
document.

Edit: Found and added #4 to the quote above. (4) An expired FCC-issued Technician Class operator license document granted before March 21, 1987; Element 3. Since Element 3 is General Class, I may be wrong here. I'll ask another ham that I know is a VE to take a look over it and will defer my comments to those that might have the correct answer.

Also, note to others: It appears the Part 97 rules on the ARRL website are outdated. They themselves point you to a more updated version of the rules located at: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:5.0.1.1.6&idno=47

 

[UPMan]

For grins, I googled K9PMF. The first link returned:

Scott W. Perkins, K9PMF:1960
403 W. Albany St
Peoria, IL
USA
So, it is listed from the 1960 database available on their DVD. The VE might accept that as proof of General Class.

 

[WB4CS]

Another way you might be able to get proof of your previous call sign is to try this website:
Steve Melachrinos - W3HF - www.w3hf.com - Home Page

This gentlemen has several old call books, he might be able to help you out.

 

[oldcallsign]

Thanks all for your input, this is my first effort at this "Forum stuff". The Pre-3/21/1987 Technician License (expired) credit FCC Rule 97.505(a)(4) information from the ARRL at :Exam Element Credit. I understand it's based on the fact that in those days our Technician and General test was the same but the code requirement of 13wpm got you the General's 'Ticket' and 5wpm got the Technician's.

I was told this by hams prior to my exam and am just trying to follow up.

The information found is much appreciated - that's me and where I lived in 1960. I'll try to get the dvd. Also I have a message in for Steve M. and expect a reply in a few days. Further, I to find it unbelievable that the FCC doesn't have a database prior to 2000, this is A.D. not B.C. --- isn't it?

Tnx,
oldcallsign

 

[AK9R]

The FCC doesn't have old call data because the licensing system wasn't computerized until sometime in the 1990's. Before then it was paper records. There's no budget at the FCC to digitize the old data.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[oldcallsign]

Thanks for your time and replies, I don't have a copy of the Rule 97.505(a)(4) mailed from the FCC, but their infromation online supports the upgrade if I can prove I had my Technician License prior to 3/21/1987.
If I can't get a page copy from an early '60s callbook I will try the dvd suggested that had K9PMF and my old address listed, link available?
Much appreciated,
oldcallsign

 

[oldcallsign]

I have a message in to Steve M. and it will take a couple of days for his reply.
Tnx very much,
oldcallsign

 

[W2PMX]

I no longer live there, so I can't go in and ask, but contact the New York Public Library (try (917) 275-6975 to start) and see if they have a callbook from when your license was still in effect. They can probably send you a photocopy for a small fee. (They have publications dating back to the Civil War that I know of, and maybe even earlier than that.)

 

[WB4CS]

I stand corrected...

After checking with a local VE here, he and another VE confirmed that 97.505(4) does state that a currently licensed Technician who previously held a Technician Class license prior to March 21, 1987 that is expired can show proof of the previous license in order to get credit for the General Element 3 exam. This will require unobjectionable proof that the person did in fact have a Technician license issued before March 21, 1987, and that the previous license is expired (wasn't renewed.)

Sorry about the confusion in my first post to this thread. I've learned something new and glad I could find out and pass along the correct information. Thanks "Token" for suggesting I had it wrong

So to the OP "oldcallsign" good luck in finding the documentation you're needing! Hopefully you can track it down and get upgraded to General Class.

73's!

 

[k3td]

NL7XM call research

You might want to drop an e-mail to Pete, NL7XM. He does superb call research for a very modest fee.

TwelveVDC@aol.com

Good luck and 73!

 

[n4yek]

No offense, but why not just go and take the test and upgrade to General that way?
There isn't any morse code requirements any longer, just the test.
Doing all this research would probably be more time consuming than just getting a new study guide and a few weeks of reading.

 

[oldcallsign]

I'll contact Pete NL7XM as suggested. But, I'll also study and take my General test and further, because there seems to be some that feel that the FCC 97.505(4), that I didn't create or ask for, may be inappropriate or fair to those who have tested.
Tnx,
oldcallsign

 

[k3td]

Scott, you don't need to apologize for wanting to get a copy of a callbook showing you were licensed before in order to get your General. I GUARANTEE the General test you took years ago given by the FCC was more difficult that the test today!

Welcome back to the hobby - good luck and 73!

 

[oldcallsign]

Your reply is encouraging and much appreciated. Us youngsters back then had to know the basic circuits 'cause many of us needed to build 'em affordably - and the stuff was not nearly as sophistocated as what's now used here.
Tnx,
OLDCALLSIGN

 

[oldcallsign]

Uupman,
Would you be so good as to give me that link - wasn't able to find it. Am not finding anyone with a '59 or'60 callbook and I'e e'mailed Steve M and Pete with no response - and the violin plays on....
Tnx,
o;dcallsign