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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2018, 12:58 PM
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Then there's also the troubles that condo and apartment dwellers have dealt with, they have even less space to work with. Plus the issue if you have a condo unit full of hams (say in the unlikely chance that every unit is occupied by a ham)... not everyone can have their own antenna, there's just not enough space, even if they're aesthetically pleasing. In this situation they'd probably have to do timesharing, if they can even get one antenna up because the HOA/overseer says no.

Also the fact that ham radio is preparedness, having a remote control radio like a repeater, while it is still radio, isn't helping personal ability in designing and maintaining HF radio systems. Using a remote antenna/radio wouldn't be much different than basically using Echolink with a cellphone, it's just not the same when one of the two infrastructure goes down.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:09 PM
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If one finds themselves in an HOA community, don't despair immediately. READ THE DOCUMENTS!

1) In some instances the HOA may have dissolved through inattentiveness by the HOA meeting state statutes and the covenants are unenforceable.

2) In other cases the covenants may have a short period of time the HOA must react either to a request or to enforce against an existing violation. If they miss the deadlines, they are legally bound to permit it.
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Old 08-12-2018, 8:08 AM
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Some CC&Rs actually have antenna language you can work with. Phrases like "antennas are permitted if they are not visible from the neighboring lots, streets, or common areas" or "antennas are permitted if the owner, prior to installation, has received the written consent of the owners of all lots who would have views of the devices from their lots" or "antennas are permitted if prohibition of the installation, use, and maintenance of such device is specifically preempted and superseded by applicable governmental authority".

Bottom line is that you have to read and understand the CC&Rs before you sign them. Demand a copy of the CC&Rs at least a week before closing on a property so that you and your attorney can review them.
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Old 08-12-2018, 8:23 AM
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Well stated but, all other things being equal, the ability or inability to erect an antenna is not likely to be a deal-breaker with most home buyers.
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Old 08-12-2018, 9:56 AM
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By Florida law the CC&Rs must be furnished. Problem is the timing. You need to read those before making an offer. Having them at closing is useless. Demand them before tendering any offer. Don't trust assertions by seller or any agent. Demand in writing any response indicating none exist.

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Old 08-12-2018, 10:12 AM
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Bankers
Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
It has become commonplace in the USA for people to make bad decisions and then ask to be bailed out.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
It has become commonplace in the USA for people to make bad decisions and then ask to be bailed out.
It's all part of that sense of entitlement. "I don't want to pay for my mistakes" and "Why should I work when there are programs out there to support me?"
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Old 08-12-2018, 1:04 PM
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Banks... and Car manufacturers...

Nobody wants to pay for their mistakes including big business, even real estate billionaires that now leads the government declared bankruptcy and expected others to clean up their mess.

and the little guy asks for a little...err... big antenna on their lot...
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Old 08-12-2018, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needairtime View Post
and the little guy asks for a little...err... big antenna on their lot...
Gets told to pound sand, not even a wire in a tree for you. Ford and Wells Fargo on the other hand.....

Moderator Edit: Even though Ford Motor Company was initially in favor of government bailouts for the "Big 3" (Chrysler, Ford, GM) and it's executives testified to that effect in Congressional hearings, Ford did not take any of the eventual bailout money themselves. Ford Credit did receive a $5.9 billion government-backed loan from the Troubled Asset Relief Program to help Ford Credit avoid bankruptcy due to its having written too many bad loans and that money was used to retool Ford's manufacturing plants. That said, the subject of government bailouts of large corporations is more of a topic for the Tavern than the Amateur Radio forums.
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Old 08-13-2018, 8:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KE0GXN View Post
Moderator Edit: Even though Ford Motor Company was initially in favor of government bailouts for the "Big 3" (Chrysler, Ford, GM) and it's executives testified to that effect in Congressional hearings, Ford did not take any of the eventual bailout money themselves. Ford Credit did receive a $5.9 billion government-backed loan from the Troubled Asset Relief Program to help Ford Credit avoid bankruptcy due to its having written too many bad loans and that money was used to retool Ford's manufacturing plants. That said, the subject of government bailouts of large corporations is more of a topic for the Tavern than the Amateur Radio forums.
My apologies Robert. Did not mean to turn this into a tavern thread.
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Old 08-14-2018, 3:08 PM
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Having read through this, I'd like to just add that OTARD Rule overrides a private contract (HOA rules) so that people can use services from major media companies. (Big 4 national TV networks, DirecTV, Dish Network)
To be consistent, either amateur radio operators should be able to put up antennas that fit within the same dimensions as the OTARD Rule (just as user needairtime suggested), or we need have the OTARD Rule removed.
Can we agree that it should be one way or another?
Either we override the HOA for small antennas, or we don't.
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Old 08-14-2018, 4:44 PM
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OTARD was created for the benefit of a large population. Just about every household, at the time OTARD was introduced, was receiving their television content via cable, satellite, or over-the-air. By comparison, one household out of, maybe, one hundred includes an amateur radio operator. Definitely not a large population. My argument being that OTARD benefited a much larger population than a PRB-1-for-CC&Rs would.

I also believe that OTARD was created so that the cable companies wouldn't have the monopoly that they have.

Of course, television content delivery is changing, people are streaming more, cable and satellite providers are scrambling to adapt to the new content delivery methods. Thusly, OTARD is less important now than when it was implemented.
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Old Yesterday, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W9BU View Post
Of course, television content delivery is changing, people are streaming more, cable and satellite providers are scrambling to adapt to the new content delivery methods. Thusly, OTARD is less important now than when it was implemented.
Actually, "cutting the cord" is gaining in popularity, I think the external antennas will gain in popularity, too. If so, that will benefit the ham community.

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  #74 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 7:31 AM
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It's been my observation that many cord cutters are putting up OTA antennas. OTARD makes it so that can happen.

Regardless of my own opinion on OTARD, I do not think it matters how popular a service is (amateur vs TV), the point is the right of the government to interfere with the HOA's rules to allow antennas to be deployed.

Any time the government gets involved with something like that, the goal should be that the rule applies equally to all, not just to one industry.
It shouldn't matter if someone needs an antenna for TV, FM/AM radio (which is also NOT covered by OTARD), wireless Internet, or amateur radio.
The rule should be that antennas within a certain size or elevation above the roofline are permitted, or they are not.
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