Non-Belden 9913? Noob advice.

[MOGA]

I just completed an order for several lengths of RG8 for various applications. 130' in total.

I told the lady that took my call that I wanted Belden 9913 when she directed me to start with my order. She hesitated, then replied that her company doesn't stock that item. She went on to indicate that the RF9913 cable that is featured on the company's website is manufactured by another company. When I asked who the manufacturer is, I was told that they're not able to reveal its identity. Oooookay.

I asked if the cable was made in USA and continued with my order when I was assured that it is.

I'm a little leery about the whole ordeal after the fact though. Have I gotten mixed up in a hook and bait scheme by a shady company? Has anyone ordered from Davis RF before? I pray that I'm not getting some cheap cable and am concerned about a 9913 cable that is not Belden. That's like a LMR-400 that's not made by Times Microwave in my mind. The price is identical to the point per foot that other places sell authentic Belden, so I expect high quality from whomever makes it.

Also got a bunch of RF Industries PL-259s and N connectors coming from another retailer, and a NIB FT 2800 inbound from a seller up in NH. A Larsen 2m base antenna is sitting in my office awaiting the rest of the gear's arrival. With any luck I should be on the air sometime next week, assuming that I get some good, quality coax runs, and I don't bungle up rolling the coax myself. I also have a HF rig (ICOM IC-718) that's on the shelf for a later date, for after I've gotten a General and figured out how to deploy a HF antenna at my QTH.

Anyhoo, let me know if the scenario I've laid out sounds kosher to you all. I may cancel it if it doesn't pass the smell test of some of the experienced HAMs on this board whose opinions I respect. Thanks.

[n4yek]

AES has Belden, if you want Belden coax. I tend to stick with trusted names when it come to coax.

[DPD1]

They're fine... It's probably made by Orion. The problem is that there's an ever dwindling amount of companies that actually make this stuff. So the way they have their distribution scheme laid out is kind of weird. In other words... They have no idea who you are, so they aren't about to just tell you where you can get the stuff directly and cut them out of the picture. Which you wouldn't be able to do anyway, because they wouldn't even talk to you until you wanted thousands of feet. But they don't know that.

[prcguy]

First off I would never buy 9913 from Belden or any company, I had water get in this coax and have heard dozens of other people with the same complaint. Its also very fragile, you can easily crush the cable with Ty-raps or even electrical tape.

I have used LMR-400 from Times, Commscope and Belden. The loss specs are close enough to be the same and the only difference I see is the jacket material and some flexibility between brands. The price can be all over the place for essentially the same cable.

Belden makes good cable but you can't say they are the best at everything. It usually costs the most and more often than not you are paying for the name and nothing else.
prcguy

[kc2rgw]

That's Davis RF's private labeled coax. If you got the 'bury flex' it is outstanding quality as I just got a full spool of that and split it with a friend.

There is no quality issue with Davis RF product, you are fine.

As to the 9913 issue, that was with the old original air dilectric 9913 that was called 'water hose' by many. The new type 9913 with the foam core is not a problem at all. Don't believe all the old wive's tales about a product that hasn't been made in a bunch of years now.

I do have half a spool of the 'water hose' variant here though heh, anyone want some?

[FLRAILMAN]

I've purchased numerous items from Davis RF in the past without any problem whatsoever, Dave & kc2rgw are correct in their replies, however like N4YEK stated, I too stick to purchasing brand name products, not that they are superior but if you have a problem with a generic product & the retailer you purchased it from either goes out of business or won't cooperate with your refund or exchange request, you are stuck. Lots of companies dealing with generic products are not that willing to divulge their equipment & supply sources as some unscrupulous manufacturers are more then willing to circumvent the manufacturer/Dealer agreements which eat into the dealers retail price profit, after all, they are in business to make money. I called them today after reading your thread & the sales associate said he would be more then willing to sell Belden 9913 cable however it would have to drop shipped which you should not have a problem with, as for the other cable companies, he said he couldn't divulge their names but they were domestic companies. If you ever become hesitant about any transaction, before, during or after, remember "Caveat Emptor"

FLRAILMAN

Davis RF Co. - The Price Leader in Times LMR, Andrews Heliax and other cables

Davis Rf is not a BBB member however BBB will accomodate dispute resolution solutions from consumer initiated complaints with non-member companies if both parties agree. So if you do encounter a problem with Davis Rf & cannot reach an amicable agreement with them, here is your option.

United States and Canada BBB Consumer and Business Reviews, Reports, Ratings, Complaints and Accredited Business Listings

[rvictor]

If I wanted Belden 9913, I can't imagine that I'd be willing to buy no-name for the same price even if the company has an excellent reputation particularly if they won't even tell me who makes it.

The stuff they sold last week may have been terrific and the stuff this week could be crap since there's no way to know that they don't just buy from the company with the lowest price each time they need to order some.

YMMV.

Dick

[MOGA]

Thanks for the assurances guys. While it is true that there may be drastic QA issues between different lots of cable from an unidentified source, I feel better knowing that the people that have dealt with Davis have had good experiences. Orion Wire seems to have purchased the various subsidiaries of Davis back in 2005, so I imagine that Orion is the manufacturer of the wire, just as DPD1 suspected. In the future, when I need more cable, I will patron a retailer that has the real McCoy, unless I need wire to bury in the ground and in which case I'll try the Davis 9914 Bury Flex. However, this stuff is going to be used for portable comms so it's not nearly as important for the cable to be absolutely top spec as it would be if it was part of a permanent solution. I also have some LMR-400 cable and that's the stuff I'll use for the base install. However, the cable is not very pliable so I wanted something a little bit more manageable for temporary setups, which is why I went with the spec 9913, even if it isn't from Belden.

PRC, thanks for clearing up the misconception I had with LMR cable. I had the impression that that alpha prefix-numeric suffix convention was a trademark of Times Microwave. Similarly, I thought Belden was the proprietary owner of the 9913 trademark. I'm only a one month tech so still learning these basic terminologies. I'm not a name brand snob at all but it doesn't seem sensible to buy a wire of similar performance and attenuation to LMR-400, 9913, etc. when the reference item is available. In any event, this lot should hold me over for a few months as I'm absolutely tapped from buying equipment and wires. It'll be a while before I'm back in the market for any other radio supplies.

I'll check back in when the wire comes to give an update on the quality of the materials and assembly after I've had a chance to give it a good inspection.

[DPD1]

I personally prefer Orion. They make good stuff. Bury Flex is very good. I know everybody goes for Belden because of the name. But they're a huge company at this point, which often means getting 'back of the bus' treatment if you're anybody other than AT&T or the government. I'd rather give somebody the money that actually wants me as a customer. But that of course isn't an issue for a consumer purchase.

[kb2vxa]

"First off I would never buy 9913 from Belden or any company, I had water get in this coax and have heard dozens of other people with the same complaint. Its also very fragile, you can easily crush the cable with Ty-raps or even electrical tape."

Of course they had those problems, they didn't properly waterproof the connectors. The second mistake was using tie wraps, too much pressure concentrated over a very small surface area is the surest way to dent a cable. Good old fashioned vinyl electrical tape always worked for me, held up for years and I never had a hint of a problem with the original 9913. Not only is it the best for waterproofing if you do it the Army way but you'll never crush a cable if you spread the turns over a few inches, never put all the pressure in one spot.

That brings me around to the fact that Belden no longer manufactures it, all that's left of that air dielectric coax is a bit of NOS kicking around the back room of a few dealerships. If you check the Belden web site you'll see the newer versions and understand what you'll get if you order the genuine article. BTW the same info straight from the horse's mouth may be found on the better dealer sites. Considering the way some versions are made it's not hard to figure out why there are so many knock-offs, major manufacturers supply detailed information not at all hard to copy but the question is HOW WELL?

[prcguy]

My connectors were well wrapped with Scotch 33+ and the other people I know took more than adequate measures to water proof theirs.

The water problem with Belden 9913 is well known and documented. It's definitely not water getting in some big gap left by an idiot assembling the connectors, the hollow coax expands and contracts breathing in moisture laden air which condenses inside the coax and can't get out.

If you tape 9913 to a mast with even lightly stretched electrical tape it will distort the cable and start to crush. Bad coax, bad bad coax.
prcguy

Originally Posted by kb2vxa

"Of course they had those problems, they didn't properly waterproof the connectors."