AOR AR-DV1 2-week assessment

[AA6IO]

Most of you reading this post are familiar with my comments from other related posts on this new receiver.
I have had the AR-DV1 for about 2 weeks and the radio is now acting "funny." Sometimes the search function works, then all of a sudden stops. The "pass" function, equivalent to "lockout" on most scanners does not work. Sometimes the keyboard input works, other times, it freezes up. In the last few days, when I turn the radio off, some of my configuration settings are lost. And today, I am experiencing a deterioration in P25 decode quality. And the radio starts to run very warm after only a few minutes. Actually the left-rear side of the radio is quite hot to touch.
I do not like the ergonomics of this radio. The screen is small, there are very few function settings that I can find, and frankly, even if the firmware fixes some of the problems I and BamaScan have discussed, I can't justify keeping this radio at its price point. Its a wideband radio with a lot of digital modes, but it does nothing really well. I will never use this radio in place of any of my scanners (that even includes the BC125AT), I will never use it in place of my better MW/HF radios, especially, my ELAD FDM-S2 and Perseus, and if we had entire systems out here in Los Angeles on NXDN and DMR that I had a real interest in, I would look into NXDN and DMR dedicated radios. Meanwhile, AirSpy and DSD+ are fine.
I mention BamaScan above because he seems to be the only other person who has posted on his experience with the AOR AR-DV1. If there are others out there, please post something for those considering this radio so that they have a wider perspective based not only on my experience. Obviously, my experience is not positive.
I picked this radio up from AOR in Torrance, but it was purchased through the Ham Station (Jeff). I have not paid for the radio yet, and said I would keep it for at least one firmware update. As you know, I have spoken to Taka. I was under the impression that some firmware update was already supposed to be available last week. However, there have been no new updates. This radio is just taking up room on my desk but is of little practical use to me.
Rather than enjoying the radio, I am just totally frustrated, not impressed with the radio, and don't see where I can justify keeping this. I have already returned the radio once to AOR, then as you know, picked it back up on a beta-tester condition to see how the next firmware will do. If that comes out early next week, I will at least try it. However, this radio is acting funny, it runs hot, and I'm afraid something is going to burn out.
I will continue to relay any problems posted by the group to Taka at AOR. He often seems to understand better in Japanese than in English, and since I speak Japanese, I will be glad to help whenever I can. However, this radio is not what I am looking for. It may be a "jack of all trades," but I don't ever see as "a master of anything" in terms of what I want in for monitoring.
So when the radio goes back this next time, it won't be coming back to my QTH. Jeff at Ham Station asked my on the phone last week, "what if the radio were priced at $700," and I responded "probably not."
So please, someone else post on these AR-DV1 related threads and give this radio a positive review. You probably won't hear one from me.

 

[AA6IO]

Something else I just noted tonight. This may not be an issue for some people, but it is for me. I just plugged a USB cable into the AR-DV1 to see if my computer would recognize the SD card. Then I realized that the connector to the radio is a USB micro, rather than a mini, and that there is no serial port on the back of the radio. The micro USB connection is a bit loose on the radio. This concerns me.
I have found with my Uniden scanners, I get the best reliability for a computer interface in serial mode with the rear serial DB9 port. The GRE/Whistlers function OK because the connection is plug in cable. I have never had much success with serial connections on scanners using the front USB ports.
Most recently, this is true of my 536HPs, where I believe many of us have found a null modem cable from the rear port to a serial port on the computer, or at least a DB9 to USB connector, is better than the front USB connection for serial logging, for example with ProScan and ARC.
This single USB micro connection, which is somewhat loose, on the AR-DV1 as the only apparent computer interface is a problem for me. I didn't realize this until I just tried to plug in a USB cable.
For some of you, this may not be an issue. But you should be aware of this in considering the radio.

 

[prcguy]

One thing I do with any new electronic equipment is turn it on the minute its unpacked and let it run continuously for a few weeks. This will weed out any infant mortality problems and if its going to burn up then lets get it over with right out of the gate.

You might let the AR-DV1 run like this and see what happens. Just make sure its sitting on something that's heat and fire proof.
prcguy

 

[prc117f]

I am surprised they are still trying to sell it. Is scanner master still selling it?

Last thing you want is pissed of customers with a dud radio and a no return policy. This radio does not seem ready for public sales yet.

 

[FrankNY]

I am surprised they are still trying to sell it.

I'm surprised, too.

Is scanner master still selling it?

Yes, it's still available at Scanner Master. Also at Universal Radio and The Ham Station.

Last thing you want is pissed of customers with a dud radio and a no return policy.

I concur.

This radio does not seem ready for public sales yet.

I haven't purchased one yet, but based upon everything that I've read, I would, unfortunately, have to agree with you on that. I expect to be receiving one in October. I can only hope that the problems have all been resolved by then.

Frank.

 

[AA6IO]

It may be listed but Taka told me last week that further sales have been stopped until some issues resolved. Spoke with Taka again today by phone. New firmware addressing several issues supposed to be available this Friday. So we will see.
They know my voice on phone at AOR now. When I call, before I say two words, the Japanese secretary says "Oh Steve san., I'll get Taka." Let's hope this all translates into an AR-DV1 with good performance..

 

[mancow]

We should start a consulting firm. I'm really, legit technical issue aside, some of the things these companies miss is just ridiculously obvious. It's bizarre. I wonder if anyone building them have ever actually used them.

 

[AA6IO]

While waiting for firmware update at end of week, I decided to see what a 16 Gb SD card instead of the 4 Gb SD card would do. Hey, it seems to help me with 536HP performance, so why not. So in went the 16 Gb card. This actually improves the performance of the radio a bit. The keys seem to respond faster, and the P25 decoding sounds a bit better (maybe it is my imagination). Also, the unit is running less hot while in search mode. It is still warm to hot, but not nearly as hot with the 4 Gb card.
Also, in the search mode, you can adjust the time from 0 to 9.9 sec that the radio will stay on a channel after it goes off. Good enough, typical "delay" time on a scanner. Mine was set at 2.0 sec. But when I set it to 0.0 sec, not only is the "delay" as we know it shorter, but the scanner searchers through empty frequencies faster. Not fast as "we know it," but faster than the 3 per sec as I reported earlier. Now, it is maybe 6 per sec (I think my old Realistic scanners were faster), but that is twice 3 per/sec, so we are making headway.
So perhaps there is some hope. Frank in NY, maybe you should get one before October. You probably can offer better advice than I can. Come on guys, I am a retired physician. Some of you must have much more professional radio knowledge than I have. Actually, I think the Mancow has the best idea. We should start a "consulting" firm.
All kidding aside, I'm glad to see that a larger capacity SD card seems to help a bit. Jeff at Ham Station e-mails me and wants me to hang in there because I can interact with Taka. Sometimes I indeed have to switch to Japanese to get my message across to him (Taka, not Jeff). I also have to concur with Mancow's final statement: Do any of these people building these things actually use them.
Hey, thanks at least for guys like Paul at Uniden. Who knows what Uniden would be coming up with if it did not have direction from someone without an interest in scanning.
This all reminds me of the people designing computers for physician's offices recently with the advent of electronic medical records. Some systems work OK, and others are downright a POS. The people writing the software have no idea what a busy medical practice requires. It is driving my wife, N6FXG (Mary), who is also a physician and currently still practicing, absolutely nuts.
OK, back to the AR-DV1 for a bit to try some NXDN and DMR with the bigger SD card.

 

[AA6IO]

One final comment: You have not seen me post anything about scan speeds. The reason is that I have been unsuccessful in being able to program more than 2 channels in the memory function before the keyboard just locks up and acts, for lack of a technical term, "wierd." I was hoping the larger SD card would help, but after entering a couple of frequencies to memory, the keyboard is freezing up, just beeping, and doing nothing. On a couple of occasions when I turned scanner off and on again to regain the function, the welcome screen showed AR-DV1 together with some of the memory information from the last channel I tried to program in.
That issue and the search speed have been major stumbling blocks for me in using this scanner. If you just park on one frequency and want to listen to digital, it's a nice radio. I'm parked on some NXDN RR channels (6.25 Khz) here in LA right now and the audio sounds great. But I can't even enter all 5 of the most common NXDN RR stations to memory to try out the scan because the unit keeps locking up.
If the next firmware addresses fixes these issues, then might get somewhere. If not, then kind of "up a wall." However, it does make me think that hooking up one of the ADR-300s to my ICOM R8500 may not be a bad idea if this receiver does not work out.

 

[KD4YGG]

Steve (an others)

Thanks for the continuing reports on initial findings on these units. As others have stated, it sounds like this receiver was designed in a vacuum using some rather crude engineering principles/practices. And now they are relying on the consumer to pay $1200 to beta test their product.

Just wondering if anyone has managed to "brick" this radio or "smoke" one yet...

Was none of the following done???

- Market Research (what features do customers want? Ever heard of Radioreference or Google ?)
- Competitive Benchmarking (what design features are Uniden, Whistler, ICOM, etc. using)
- Lessons Learned (go back to old products - what worked/what did not work)
- Design Guidelines (do you have standard design blocks, etc. instead of recreating new all the time)
- Design Review (multi-discipline review that you can build a product that will work)
- Design Validation Testing (does your design actually perform like it's intended)
- Design Failure Mode Effects Analysis (what can fail and how do you engineer fixes for those modes)
- Process Failure Mode Effects Analysis (how can manufacturing process fail, how do you fix)
- Process Control Plan (what tests/measurements/checks/inspections are done in manufacturing)
- Component Validation Plan (how is each component validated for ratings, function, reliability)
- Component Approval Plan (take it to component level manufacturing - how is each one approved?)
- Product Testability Plan (can you confirm testing covers function, open circuits, short circuits?)
- Application Validation Plan (does product perform in real world, not just in lab with a signal generator)
- Software/Firmware Validation Plan (how do you validate the software in the unit function correctly)
- Software Revision Control
- Engineering Documentation Revision Control
- End User Beta Testing?
- Proactive Communication Regarding Issues (admit that something is wrong and communicate plan to fix)

Looking back through the years I've been monitoring (since 1993), AOR continues to market high-end and overpriced receivers that continually fail to meet customer expectations, are typically riddled with minor issues that add up to consumer frustration. Perhaps there is a market for that - and as PT Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute"...

So disappointing... so disappointing....

 

[AA6IO]

KD4YGG
Interesting that you mention "smoke or brick" the radio. Well 1 hour ago, after the radio had been on a couple of hours in search mode, all of a sudden it got real hot. So I said, "Oh s...., I better turn it off." But it would not go off, no matter what I did with the front control power button, it would not go off. The radio was getting hotter, the power supply was super hot, so I just unplugged the power supply from the radio.
I took the 16 Gb card out, put the 4 Gb card in, and at least the radio started up again and could shut it off. That's it for me guys (and any gals) out there. I will not be using this radio any more. I'll wait for the new firmware this week, give it a brief try, and see if any of the many issues are better. Then, this radio goes back to AOR in Torrance.
Wish I could be more positive about this radio, but I have owned many radios in my lifetime as an amateur radio operator for 53 years and scanning since the early 1980s on and off. And this radio is not going to do it for me. My advice: Don't even attempt to do anything with this radio without software being available. It is a real PITA to program anything by hand. The ergonomics and key functions are really, well let's just say, not good. Half of the key functions don't even work.
I truly hope that my radio is a lemon among other units that are lemonade. Because my experience is just getting worse and worse. In some ways, I wish Taka had told me not to say anything to anyone about this beta experience. Please someone else, say something good about this radio. Tell me I have a "dud," or that I am full of s...., and that this is a great radio. None of you will hear much positive from me.

 

[vince48]

KD4YGG
I agree with you. shameful of AOR to bring to the market this receiver and expect people to put out their hard earned dollars. I have a AOR 5000+3.
It's a great receiver,. However, the design is awful unless you use third party software. But this AOR AR-DV1 is to say the least, very very bad marketing to engineering. I would not purchase this receiver even at half the price.
Just my $.02

 

[BamaScan]

The heat from the AOR DV-1 is no big deal with me. I am running it as soon as I get up and when I go to bed. It gets as hot as my icom R8500 wide band receiver. I did find out when you shut it down let it completely shut down and don't unplug the plug from the base of the receiver. Unplug it from the wall. If you unplug it from the receiver from the back after it is shut down the next time you will get the orange screen and locks up . Only way to get out of this is to leave radio unplugged for about 5 min. Then plug cord to radio then wall outlet.

 

[BamaScan]

Just checked to see if the AOR Power Supply on my AOR ARD25 decoder is the same model as the AR DV-1. It is the exact same power supply. Comparing the 2 on heat the DV-1 does make the power supply warm, the ARD25 power supply is room tempature cool. So this narrows it down something in the DV-1 is creating the heat. Not the power supply.

 

[pb_lonny]

Sounds like it was rushed out before it had been tested and was ready.

 

[FrankNY]

Frank in NY, maybe you should get one before October.

Well, if I even last until October, there's supposed to be a certain celebratory event taking place at that time and as a result I should be receiving the radio as a gift. Surely you must admit, that's a more cost effective approach than gifting myself.

And given the multitude of problems with the radio, the conservative tactic would be to take a wait-and-see attitude rather than jumping in at this point.

You probably can offer better advice than I can.

My advice to those interested in the radio would be to wait a month or two and then make a final decision. I don't have a crystal ball, but quite a while back, based upon some comments posted here on the RR Forums, I began to suspect that the radio suffered from thermal-related problems. Relatively slow scanning speeds I fully expected, given that the product is a receiver and not a scanner, but I wasn't really expecting the glacial speeds that you've experienced, especially in today's world of low-cost high-speed microprocessors.

Come on guys, I am a retired physician.

And I'm a retired computer person. Despite all of the radios that I've owned over the years, and the many thousands of dollars spent on them, I do not consider myself to be a radio person. The closest that I've ever come to using a radio professionally was that for about twenty years of my life I was on call 24/7 and had to wear an employer-supplied beeper. And the only license that I hold is for GMRS. I've taken the Technician class amateur radio license test online a few times and have always passed without doing any studying but never seem motivated enough to take the test for real.

Some of you must have much more professional radio knowledge than I have.

Not me, although some others here might.

Actually, I think the Mancow has the best idea. We should start a "consulting" firm.

Or how about when the AR-DV1 Mark II comes out, it should instead be called the "AR-DV1S" where the "S" stands for "Steve", given the time, trouble, and effort that you've put into this, all of which I greatly appreciate, by the way.

All kidding aside, I'm glad to see that a larger capacity SD card seems to help a bit.

See, that shows what I know about the inner workings of a radio such as this. For example, if someone were to suggest to me that a larger capacity flash memory card would have any effect on the scanning speed, I would tell them that I seriously doubt that it would have any effect whatsoever. Longer recording time for the recording of conversations, yes, but scanning speed, no way. In fact, isn't it possible to put the radio into one of its scanning modes without even having a card in the slot, or is it always necessary to have a card in the slot, possibly no matter how the radio is utilized?

Frank.

 

[AA6IO]

Bamascan, I appreciate your further comments. Frank, I seriously did not expect you to go out and buy one now. I hope by October things have improved, so by the time of your big event, you can have a nice radio that works.
Believe me, I would love to see this radio be successful. It is quite amazing when on VFO A I am listening to NXDN or DMR, and when I switch to VFO B, I am listening to 40 meter CW. Then a half hour later, listening to the LAPD P25 on VFO A, and Radio Havana Cuba on VFO B. So if we can get a good working version of this radio, it would be great.
I keep saying that I'm not a radio professional, and I am not. But did have a second class radiotelephone license when I was 18, planned on going into broadcast engineering (late 1960s), then got sidetracked into another career. Also, been a ham since 1962, with extra class license since 1984. I actually read quite a bit about receiver specifications, and have been really fascinated by SDR radios over the past few years. Nothing like working CW with a bandwidth of about 20 Hz with my Flex 5000.
Jeff from Ham Station contacted me today and thinks from what Taka told him, the firmware may be out on Thursday our time (Friday Japan time.
Bamascan, have you been successful in programming some stations to memory for scanning, and if so, what is your experience with the scanning function. Also, in search mode, what is your search speed? I don't expect "scanner like speed," but I would like to break the "glacial speeds" I have been getting.
Thank you everybody.