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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2018, 3:40 PM
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Information about the release date seems to be all over the place:

Website in Swedish: April or May 2018

AOR AR-DV10 Digtal mottagare 100kHz-1300MHz - Limmared Radio & Data AB

Website in Russian: May 2018

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

Website in German: February 20, 2018

https://translate.google.com/transla...anner-receiver
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2018, 8:24 PM
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@Forly192

You're right with the release date. Many companies that will be stocking the DV-10 have published an expected release date -- however, before AOR can start the mass manufacturing process of this new device it must comply with F.C.C. rules/regulations. This can takes months. It just doesn't happen over night or in a few weeks. To-date, AOR don't have any pending applications with the F.C.C. for any devices they intend on producing. This makes me think that after the model they had on display at the Hamfair in Toyko they have taken it back to the drawing board -- maybe to add, alter, change features/something about the device. I am a bit baffled as to how AOR have let sellers advertise the device when not even a pending application has been submitted.
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Old 02-06-2018, 1:42 AM
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Quote:
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One thing I find interesting in that chart is is the parenthetical use of “scrambled”. A scrambled signal is synonymous with encryption, is it not? Is the monitoring of “scrambled” sigs in Japan not illegal?
While you specifically mentioned Japan, just by way of information monitoring an encrypted/scrambled signal in Australia is NOT illegal. Therefore we will get the fully opened version, no locked out mobile phone frequencies and the ability to unscamble scrambled frequencies.

R
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Old 02-06-2018, 2:37 AM
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FCC. It maybe required in USA but it is not required in Japan and rest of the World. Is that correct ?
My understanding is that years ago Yupiteru could be bothered with FCC rigmoral and abandoned selling scanners in USA due to outdated FCC restrictions and concentrating in Japanese market with their MVT-5500 and MVT-7500 models. However, USA being large and important market and very likely sooner or later AOR will have to go with FCC compliance for DV-10.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:20 AM
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Will be interesting to see how fast this can scan and search also when it will become available to the US market, will it put a dent in the Whistler and uniden sales.I cant wait for this radio to be honest.Looks like a BCD-436HP to me.
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Old 02-07-2018, 7:07 PM
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There's one huge flaw in your theory - AOR radios are NOT trunktrackers. The DV10, like many of it's similar cousins, is nothing more than a wide band handheld that happens to decode (not trunk) a few modes.

Really, there's very little either Uniden nor Whistler have to worry about. Mike
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Old 02-08-2018, 6:24 AM
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Have a look here:
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Old 02-08-2018, 7:29 AM
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Being able to decode a digital protocol on a single frequency and tracking a trunked system are two different things.
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Old 02-08-2018, 9:36 AM
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AOR left out something in the chart to make their radios look better. The Icom R8600 export version will descramble NXDN but their chart doesn't mention it.
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Have a look here:
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Old 02-08-2018, 9:52 AM
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Will the 8600 auto find the key or or do you have to enter it manually ?

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Old 02-08-2018, 10:00 AM
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Is that better ?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
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@KB7MIB
For Europe and pretty much the rest of the world ...

The AOR AR-DV10U model is the same as above, but without the 824-849 / 869-894 MHz cellular gap and can be purchased via government or qualifying commercial purchase order or for export only. The unblocked - export version is not available for online ordering.
The DV10 I had chance to experienced past weeks is totaly unblocked. It recevied 800/900Mhz range.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2018, 11:37 AM
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Scrambling (voice inversion, etc.) ≠ encryption.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:39 AM
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Thank you, I feel much better now.

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Is that better ?
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:46 AM
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In the most basic description, encryption is a method of encoding a message so it can only be read by the sender and intended recipient. Therefore, inversion scrambling is a form of encryption. Its a very poor method but still encryption.

The meaning gets skewed these days since most encryption is geared towards computer data, so most people assume encryption must include 1s and 0s, but not so. Its kind of like people saying an SDR radio can't be an SDR unless it has a computer attached. Nonsense.
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Scrambling (voice inversion, etc.) ≠ encryption.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:49 AM
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It does seem odd that the write-up mentions Phase 2 without mentioning trunking... To my knowledge, there is no such thing as conventional P25 Phase 2.

Even Phase 1 without trunking (for those of us monitoring trunk systems - which is probably most) isn't of much value...

I remember trying to monitor my county's brand new Motorola 800 trunk system in the late 80's before there was a trunking scanner... what a huge waste of time (and that radio was sent back for a refund very quickly).

Even if they have the ability to monitor the trunked Phase 2 activity "conventionally" (I don't know of any radio that does that today), to a user, it would essentially be the same as monitoring Phase 1 since it is more or less simply a split of the frequency into two channels....

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Is that better ?
That chart is very interesting... they are comparing their "Phase 2" to Uniden and Whistler "Phase 2" - which is only trunking mode.
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
In the most basic description, encryption is a method of encoding a message so it can only be read by the sender and intended recipient. Therefore, inversion scrambling is a form of encryption. Its a very poor method but still encryption.

The meaning gets skewed these days since most encryption is geared towards computer data, so most people assume encryption must include 1s and 0s, but not so. Its kind of like people saying an SDR radio can't be an SDR unless it has a computer attached. Nonsense.
prcguy
Well, not quite. Encryption is scrambling, but not all scrambling is encryption.

Encryption converts an analog signal into a digital format (and then scrambles it). When you scramble an analog signal, it remains an analog signal.

There are digital modes that offer scrambling but that's still not considered encryption because the analog signal is scrambled before it's converted to a digital signal. You can receive and decode the digital signal, but will only hear a scrambled analog signal without the appropriate descrambler.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2018, 12:36 PM
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Encryption has nothing to do with digital, its simply altering a message to make it more private. It can be the application of an audio sub carrier to voice as in inversion scrambling, or a step up using an audio sub carrier that changes frequency as in rolling code inversion or any method you can think of to make a message difficult to intercept by anyone not intended to receive the message.

Even writing a message in pencil and hiding the meaning via key words or changing the characters in a way only known to the recipient and sending it through the mail is a form of encryption. I've owned and used just about every kind of encryption available for two way radio use from inversion to military Type 1 and it all does the same thing, just at different levels of privacy. And its all considered encryption.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ur20v View Post
Well, not quite. Encryption is scrambling, but not all scrambling is encryption.

Encryption converts an analog signal into a digital format (and then scrambles it). When you scramble an analog signal, it remains an analog signal.

There are digital modes that offer scrambling but that's still not considered encryption because the analog signal is scrambled before it's converted to a digital signal. You can receive and decode the digital signal, but will only hear a scrambled analog signal without the appropriate descrambler.
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
Encryption has nothing to do with digital, its simply altering a message to make it more private. It can be the application of an audio sub carrier to voice as in inversion scrambling, or a step up using an audio sub carrier that changes frequency as in rolling code inversion or any method you can think of to make a message difficult to intercept by anyone not intended to receive the message.

Even writing a message in pencil and hiding the meaning via key words or changing the characters in a way only known to the recipient and sending it through the mail is a form of encryption. I've owned and used just about every kind of encryption available for two way radio use from inversion to military Type 1 and it all does the same thing, just at different levels of privacy. And its all considered encryption.
prcguy
You are confusing cryptography with encryption. There is a difference.
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Old 02-08-2018, 1:23 PM
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<snip>
Even Phase 1 without trunking (for those of us monitoring trunk systems - which is probably most) isn't of much value...
Well, not quite - trunking aside, many Feds are now using P25 Phase 1 conventional - USCG and TSA being but 2 examples. That's a plus for Fed monitors. And there are some LEOs using Phase 1 conventional as well. Phase 2 conventional? I've never seen that.

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