Single Freq LTR Systems

[radioprescott]

It appears that Unisource gas (UNS) operates single channel trunked systems on their frequencies, at least the ones I can monitor. Why would you want a single channel LTR system? Wouldn't CTCSS, DPL or NAC (for P25) work just as well?

-->Using LTR Analyzer, I confirmed the following:
Williams WPTE735 854.86250 Confirmed LCN 01/ no additional LCNs noted
Jerome WPTE735 855.86250 Confirmed LCN 01/ no additional LCNs noted
Cottonwood WPWR342 856.38750 Confirmed LCN 01/ no additional LCNs noted
Prescott WPTE735 857.31250 Confirmed LCN 01/ no additional LCNs noted

All the sites use TG 0-01-001 for operations in that area.

[I submitted the above for addition to the RR database already]

Here are some UNCONFIRMED SITES from the RR database. Probably will need local monitors to confirm:

Camp Verde - WQJT399 857.81250
Flagstaff - WPTD549 860.78750
Holbrook - WPTD549 855.08750
Jerome - WQJT398 859.86250
Kingman - WPTE735 856.33750
Lake Havasu City - WPUG622 855.18750
Pine Top - WPTD549 857.91250
Sedona - WQJT300 855.18750
Seligman - WQJF928 855.18750
Winslow - WPTD549 856.91250

[wlmr]

Not that familiar with LTR so this is only a guess.

IF they are trying to keep track of and control individual radio IDs, could this setup be providing them a way to do that? If they can identify who might have just keyed up and yelled emergency it may be why this is being done.

Again, serious guessing going on here. Anyone with more LTR knowledge want to weigh in?

[alphabravo1]

It's easy to expand systems and channels.
Plus you can organize into "fleets" though you can do the same with PL tones. But with LTR only the fleet intended is the one that can monitor unless you have a scanner.

[FLANO]

Hello John et al,

I received your submission. And I too had questions about this. I looked at the database submissions first before looking at the AZ forum, so please forgive the e-mail

The biggest head scratcher is why would three of the sites that you've monitored, that fall under the same license, all transmit as LCN 01? LTR won't let all of them be LCN 01, if they were to all operate on the same TRS with the TG 0-01-001. They also can't share the same frequencies with the same area code under LCN 01.

It would be real nice if folks with the capability could verify if the other frequencies are also transmitting an LTR channel ID.

I'm still pondering how this would be submitted to the database, since it is not a true TRS, as you state they are being used as a single channel. I'll have to ask the powers to be on this one for a little help and/or guidance.

Thanks

[radioprescott]

Originally Posted by FLANO

Hello John et al,

The biggest head scratcher is why would three of the sites that you've monitored, that fall under the same license, all transmit as LCN 01? LTR won't let all of them be LCN 01, if they were to all operate on the same TRS with the TG 0-01-001. They also can't share the same frequencies with the same area code under LCN 01.

I've noticed that the FCC database may say one thing, but the licensees seems to use the freqs as they want. ( "Borrowing" freqs from one license to another, etc).

Could they use a LCN 1 for each system as long as the mobile unit had to change channels for each site? I'll admit that seems to defeat the purpose of trunking, but it may be technically possible.

As for a single TG, they might use a single TG for the entire system: In one area, it would affiliated with Site A, and the same TG could affiliate site B, C, etc. in those areas. Again, not the usual trunking procedure.

Originally Posted by FLANO

I'm still pondering how this would be submitted to the database, since it is not a true TRS, as you state they are being used as a single channel. I'll have to ask the powers to be on this one for a little help and/or guidance.

I have no problem spending more time trying to get a handle on this before we add it.

I realize that monitoring the gas company isn't all that thrilling ... but as Scanner Nut with a bit of OCD, I would like to figure this out.

[slicerwizard]

Originally Posted by FLANO

I'm still pondering how this would be submitted to the database, since it is not a true TRS, as you state they are being used as a single channel.

It's still a real trunking system and more talkgroups might be added at some point. Single channel LTR systems aren't particularly unusual - here's one in my area: Scanner Frequencies: Fleetcom/Lakeshore Electronics Trunking System, Toronto, Ontario

You need to program these in a scanner as LTR systems (unless you like listening to the idle bursts), so all of the relevant details (frequency, LCN, talkgroup(s)) have to be in the RR database as LTR systems...

[FLANO]

John,

Thanks for the information. I got your PM as well. Assuming you have enough scanners, so you can do this, can you dedicate one scanner for a week on one frequency?

If not, how about dedicating it between 8am and 5pm, on the weekdays for a week. This would allow other possible TG's to show up, and or for the message that other LCN's do in fact exist

I understand the need to see what else is out there. I've got one PRO-2006 that is pretty much only used to trunk follow/decode the TRS systems down in my area

Thanks again,

[FLANO]

Originally Posted by slicerwizard

It's still a real trunking system and more talkgroups might be added at some point. Single channel LTR systems aren't particularly unusual - here's one in my area: Scanner Frequencies: Fleetcom/Lakeshore Electronics Trunking System, Toronto, Ontario

You need to program these in a scanner as LTR systems (unless you like listening to the idle bursts), so all of the relevant details (frequency, LCN, talkgroup(s)) have to be in the RR database as LTR systems...

Thaknks for the reference on this one. I was hoping to find a single channel LTR system in the DB. I know it's not impossible, but it just seems odd that the same company, in relative close proximity, would use the same LCN on its radio system. To be sure, not impossible, just odd.

I've asked John to get us a week long of week day traffic at least, and we'll see what shakes

Thanks for your help,

[radioprescott]

Originally Posted by FLANO

If not, how about dedicating it between 8am and 5pm, on the weekdays for a week. This would allow other possible TG's to show up, and or for the message that other LCN's do in fact exist

Actually will be doing that from about 6AM until 6PM - while I'm at work, I’ll let the scanner run.

(Except the 1st Wednesday of the month, around 10AM, where I'll be using Unitrunker to catch some elusive DEMA radio IDs during their EOC roll call on the APS net.)

[FLANO]

Originally Posted by radioprescott

Actually will be doing that from about 6AM until 6PM - while I'm at work, I’ll let the scanner run.

(Except the 1st Wednesday of the month, around 10AM, where I'll be using Unitrunker to catch some elusive DEMA radio IDs during their EOC roll call on the APS net.)

Thanks John,

I have a number of the EOC RID's already ID'd. I'll check my database and get back to you on this one.

[radioprescott]

Originally Posted by FLANO

Assuming you have enough scanners, so you can do this, can you dedicate one scanner for a week on one frequency?

One can never have enough scanners.

I sat on Williams 854.8625 for a week and received a read of LCN1 TG 0-01-001 ATB (all trunks busy) Never saw another LCN.

The traffic is all gas related and in the Flagstaff area.

I sat on Prescott 857.31250 for another week and hear idles only as LCN 01 with no additional LCNs noted, but no TG traffic was logged.

I haven't had time to log the others.

I vote for a single freq LTR for UNS, at least for Williams

[FLANO]

Thanks John,

You musta read my mind. I was about to ask you what you found out

Done .... http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6225