Less & Less on Phx CAD

[rpgaun]

Well, in keeping with the mega trend of RWC encryption I have noticed that more assignments are being left off the Phx CAD then are being put on. It's becoming a glorified traffic accident board and even then it falls short.

 

[KB7MIB]

It currently has the presidential detail listed. They're on K-4.

John
Peoria

 

[rpgaun]

I just saw a 962 get taken off the CAD after it was assigned to K13. Sounded like it involved an MCSO transport van with 1 deputy transporting a prisoner, very minor injuries. There were no transports from the scene. Why we need to keep things from the public is very disturbing. Next up will be the Secret Police (oh wait, I think they are already around).

 

[AZScanner]

I just saw a 962 get taken off the CAD after it was assigned to K13. Sounded like it involved an MCSO transport van with 1 deputy transporting a prisoner, very minor injuries. There were no transports from the scene. Why we need to keep things from the public is very disturbing. Next up will be the Secret Police (oh wait, I think they are already around).

I've heard from various sources inside PFD that there are some very high ranking officials there that want to see the public CAD page gone completely, At least they haven't gotten their way yet. Sounds like they are slowly whittling it away though.

As for the rest of the city, don't even get me started on the encryption now in place at Sky Harbor - even for the parking attendants - talk about ridiculous. When did the scanner community become the enemy? That's what I'd like to know.

-AZ

 

[RadioSquad]

Well first of all something must of happened behind closed doors for The "RWC" to fully Encrypt all of their Sky Harbor Airport Talkgroups. There are a lot of non transparent items that are not shared to the general public for sure. Let's look at common sense here for a minute. What agency encrypts all of their public works and transportation talkgroups at the airport? Nobody does. It's not brain science around here. Somebody at the airport that runs these operations is paranoid thinking that extremists are going to attack the airport and their transportation system using a scanner radio. PERIOD....

The RWC with any common sense would of Encrypted everything to do with Law Enforcement on every talkgroup before they would Encrypted all of the Sky Harbor Airport Talkgroups. It's the Wild Wild West when it comes to this Encryption stuff anymore. These agencies are doing whatever they want and nobody has any say so anymore. With Homeland Security and the TSA and all of these agencies we as a community have no leg to stand on anymore.

On one last note if The RWC is starting to lockout Public Works - Transportation - and Fire Dispatch and Fire Tac's then you might as well hang up your scanners for another hobby. Like Bob Grove said years ago "this hobby is in a slow death spiral". Enjoy what you have for now.

 

[AZScanner]

Well first of all something must of happened behind closed doors for The "RWC" to fully Encrypt all of their Sky Harbor Airport Talkgroups. There are a lot of non transparent items that are not shared to the general public for sure. Let's look at common sense here for a minute. What agency encrypts all of their public works and transportation talkgroups at the airport? Nobody does. It's not brain science around here. Somebody at the airport that runs these operations is paranoid thinking that extremists are going to attack the airport and their transportation system using a scanner radio. PERIOD....

Paranoid might be a strong word. I think it's more an over abundance of caution. "Oh, anyone with a few hundred bucks and access to a free website can monitor the airport's operations? Well I can eliminate that risk easily, regardless of how small a risk it really is." Boom, encrypted.

And yeah, I agree - it's only a matter of time before pretty much all of public safety is encrypted, not just here but all over. Sadly, with the current events happening around the world in places like Mumbai, Australia and now most recently France, where first responders were targets too, encryption makes plenty of sense. All we need is something like that to happen here (or even be thwarted in the planning stages) to give them the perfect excuse to encrypt it all.

-AZ

 

[RadioSquad]

The funny and not so funny thing is that when everybody locks their comms down then nobody will be-able to talk to each other anymore. Yeah you have patching from dispatch console's and so on is but the technology is there to do it but when there is a big incident and multi agencies involved. Good Luck on trying to figure out who's in the clear and who is encrypted and where in the hell can I get a patched talkgroup. Sorry but all of VHF conventionals are tied up. It's just crazy and stupid at this point.



This all happened at The Los Angeles Airport with the shooting a couple of years ago. You had airport on a trunked system which was in the clear and then you had LAPD and still there was comm problems. Add another speed bump in the street which would be encrypted talkgroups and bingo a big recipe for a bigger disaster. O well let Phoenix figure it out at this point. Wait until they get punched in the face and try and get up off the ground.

 

[KB7MIB]

Everybody can go to G-deck.
Everybody can go to (the encrypted that everyone has the key to) H-deck.
Everybody can go to O-deck.

I think police can even go to fire's L-deck, since Tempe worked the NYE Block Party on L-deck, while the Cardinal's game was being worked on G-deck. O-deck had a TG or two in use as well that day.

In addition, I-deck is the conventional 800 MHz interops, (simplex then repeater), as well as a few 700 MHz SPTAC's to round it out.

(I understand that Peoria PD has Glendale PD's TG's in their F-deck. I've seen and heard El Mirage and Surprise PD running on the same call together. I don't know which other agencies have each other's TG's in their radios.)

That should cover all the interop needs here in the Valley, since everyone has dual-band radios now. (DPS switched over last year.)

Encrypting everything at the airport is nothing but overkill. The airport police should even have their main TG in the clear, with an encrypted tac TG if they really need it. (The same for the Downtown Operations Unit. Main TG in the clear, the secondary encrypted for car-to-car/info/hot calls if needed.)

John
Peoria

 

[SCPD]

I once asked a buddy in a federal position of interest about this sort of thing. The die hard thing had me wonder. He laughed and said if they have enough money and resources it can be done. Very highly illegal and get you fed time but those types could care less. The scanner would be least of anyone's worries he said. He said like a door lock and key only keep honest people honest. I also read articles regarding it around about enough machines, right equipment, right stuff they can solve it. In non rolling re keying environment he said. He then said don't get me started on macgyver.

 

[AirScan1]

so what left to hear
if the good stuff has been encrypted ?

 

[rpgaun]

It appears that Natural Gas Leaks are big secrets and now so are the Aircraft Emergencies at Sky Harbor. Guess that goes along with the encryption on the RWC Airport TGs.

 

[mesocyclone]

I once asked a buddy in a federal position of interest about this sort of thing. The die hard thing had me wonder. He laughed and said if they have enough money and resources it can be done. Very highly illegal and get you fed time but those types could care less. ... I also read articles regarding it around about enough machines, right equipment, right stuff they can solve it. In non rolling re keying environment he said. ....

I really don't think the fed guy was telling the truth on encryption. Modern non-classified-grade encryption is very strong. It is slightly possible (not certain) that NSA can break the stuff used in public safety, but I really doubt anyone else - even a rich criminal cartel - is going to do it. They would find easier ways - such as stealing an encrypted radio.

I'm not a cryptographer, but I have done work in computer security off and on for a long time, and that involves understanding encryption.

 

[mitbr]

. When did the scanner community become the enemy? That's what I'd like to know.

-AZ

Everyone not in some level of government is the enemy as we move toward a police state.

 

[cellphone]

He laughed and said if they have enough money and resources it can be done. Very highly illegal and get you fed time but those types could care less. The scanner would be least of anyone's worries he said. He said like a door lock and key only keep honest people honest. I also read articles regarding it around about enough machines, right equipment, right stuff they can solve it. In non rolling re keying environment he said. He then said don't get me started on macgyver.

If a system uses DES encryption, then this would be possible as this is a deprecated encryption type. The RWC, and most other modern radio systems, use AES Encryption which is another story. I encourage anyone that can crack AES to publish your findings, as you will probably be in the running for a Nobel prize. If AES is compromised, we have a lot more to worry about than just radio communications that are encrypted.

 

[KB7MIB]

On my way home from work this evening, at about 6:15pm, several Peoria FD units (BC, big ladder, 2 engines) were southbound on Grand Ave, code 3. I checked the CAD page when I was stopped at the light at 75th Ave, but there was nothing listed that they would have been going to.
A little after I got home, there was a 962 at 51st & Northern Aves, but it only had an GFD engine, a Southwest unit and GPD on it.
So, I have no clue what Peoria was running on. I don't bring a scanner to work with me.

John
Peoria

 

[sc800]

Now I am seeing some medical responses on the cad with just one unit assigned

 

[KB7MIB]

Not all EMS calls have an ambulance/medic/rescue unit assigned to it automatically. The engine or ladder crew have to request it, if needed.

I was born and raised 14 years near Philly. Montgomery County has a centralized dispatch center for police, fire and EMS in the county. Their CAD shows fire, EMS, and traffic incidents countywide.
Montgomery County, PA - Official Website - Active Incident WebCAD
(There's a mobile view link below the listings.)

John
Peoria

 

[sc800]

How do ems calls not have a transport assigned automatically? Isn't that a.delay in service

 

[KB7MIB]

It may depend on the nature of the call, on the information the caller gives the calltaker.
They could also be frequent flyers, or those who only need to refill their prescriptions, and don't have transportation (yes, that happens) who are called a cab.

John
Peoria

 

[rpgaun]

How do ems calls not have a transport assigned automatically? Isn't that a.delay in service

That's been the model in place for as long as I can remember (back to the 70's - yea I'm old..LOL). Send qualified 1st responders to begin aid and send the next, closes ambulance for transport. On a cost basis you can cut down on the number of transport units on duty. There are protocols in place for automatic dispatch of transport units for calls that may need ALS treatment and/or transport.