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  #221 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 7:28 PM
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OK, I will start with basics, not to be insulting, but to try to make things a tad easier to understand in the rest of the explanation.

On an TRS, as well as any system using multiple repeaters, there are a couple of ways to get radio traffic out... Simulcasting is sending the exact same traffic out over every repeater in your net. With conventional systems this usually does not cause issues with scanners since its being done on different frequencies for each repeater (including different bands even), or different tones on the same frequencies, and other reasons. On the old "legacy" TRS's, simulcasting also usually causes no issues due to the type of modulation used. However on P25 systems, the kind that causes scanners to have migraine headaches, is known as Linear Simulcast Modulation (LSM). Scanner hardware/software is not quite as sophisticated as commercial/public safety P25 gear, and can not properly decode the arrival of the exact same signals, on the exact same frequencies at same time, much less if the signals are slightly out of phase due to arrival times being slightly different. One way I explain this to people is the group conversation method: You are a scanner. I am a stand alone repeater. You understand when I am talking just fine. Now, lets surround you with say.. 6 people. If each of us says something different, and do not interrupt the other except in proper sequence of conversation, you follow us all pretty good too. Now, all 6 of us say the exact same things at the exact same time... Now its a little more confusing, but can be possibly understood. Now, each of us says the exact same thing, but 2, or 3, or even all 6 now start the conversations at slightly differing timing "roundabout" style. This is pretty much now impossible for you to understand, much less follow sanely.

Most of the AWIN is using stand alone repeater sites. A few sites are simulcasts. As of right now, only the 2 newest Unidens have seemed to knocked the issues back quite a bit with some new hardware additions, and slightly tweaked software. The GRE's (now Whistler)/RS scanners have a few niftly software workarounds, but not quite the workaround the new Unidens have. We shall see what the next gen Whistler's do in a year or so.

Currently the best fixes involve directional antenna systems for "base" operations with scanners, and combinations of attenuation, and as little antenna power as possible for "mobile" operations on P25 Simulcasts. When you are very close to 1 single site, you may get greater "lock" on the signals and thus not have as much issues. Or if you are dead center of coverage. If you are outside the "simulcast circle" so to speak, far enough away that you only get good reception of 1 site, it is not much of an issue either. Its being in overlapping coverage of multiple sites of an simulcast that the fun starts. So if you can run an directional "Yagi" style, and can really zero it in on 1 site, you get the best results.
Excellent explanation and scenarios, milf! Props to you!
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  #222 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 7:37 PM
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I don't have any fancy software. I am still old school and do everything manually. I am positive all I have is 851.1375, 852.4375, 856.1875, and 859.7625 in one bank with a wild card. I have picked up grant county, prairie county, Cleveland county, Jackson, county, ar trauma com, easi ambulance, Jacksonville, and lonoke county to name a few. At times I hear lr loud and clear on awin. Right now they are currently using awin and analog on lrpd. I am using my old analog for help identifying.
OK that indeed shows integration is at least beginning to happen.. As to why you don't get Pulaski County agencies outside the "local" area of the simulcast: Until the full transition has occurred, the radios are not very "roam friendly" I guess is the best way to explain this. They will only affiliate with the simulcast, and not other sites. The only exception I would expect will be SO. The way the simulcast is designed, primary coverage is for "inside" the simulcast. There are some antennas that aim out/sideways for coverage, but again, the main focus is going to be in. It sounds like the other AWIN users can now affiliate, and thier comms get passed along on the "outside" antennas. I do wish I was there to monitor the transition, it would be a fun challenge. I am willing to bet, after everyone has switched, that the coverage gets extended to all the sites surrounding Pulaski County for interop, roaming, etc...

Just out of curiousity: Is AHP/ASP using the simulcast as much as the other sites yet?

This simulcast is sounding just slightly different from the Fayetteville one, but then again, there wasn't an special set up to merge in another system there, and the Jacksonville was an stand alone merger.
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Old 02-03-2014, 7:52 PM
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Hey MIF and any other person(s) do you have any new talk group radio ID list for the NE Arkansas counties of Mississippi and Crittenden Counties for the AWIN system ?


I would love to have confirmed list for the agencies in the above mentioned area. So that I can update my list.

I travel through the area twice year. So any help would be appreciated a lot

Thanks.
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  #224 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 7:53 PM
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Originally Posted by milf View Post
OK that indeed shows integration is at least beginning to happen.. As to why you don't get Pulaski County agencies outside the "local" area of the simulcast: Until the full transition has occurred, the radios are not very "roam friendly" I guess is the best way to explain this. They will only affiliate with the simulcast, and not other sites. The only exception I would expect will be SO. The way the simulcast is designed, primary coverage is for "inside" the simulcast. There are some antennas that aim out/sideways for coverage, but again, the main focus is going to be in. It sounds like the other AWIN users can now affiliate, and thier comms get passed along on the "outside" antennas. I do wish I was there to monitor the transition, it would be a fun challenge. I am willing to bet, after everyone has switched, that the coverage gets extended to all the sites surrounding Pulaski County for interop, roaming, etc...

Just out of curiousity: Is AHP/ASP using the simulcast as much as the other sites yet?

This simulcast is sounding just slightly different from the Fayetteville one, but then again, there wasn't an special set up to merge in another system there, and the Jacksonville was an stand alone merger.

I just ran a quick test. I can hear asp with the simulcast. It sounds just like lrpd- hit and miss. If I listen to asp on the bank I have dedicated to asp it is loud and clear. I hope everything works itself out once county jumps on board.
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  #225 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AC0RV View Post
Hey MIF and any other person(s) do you have any new talk group radio ID list for the NE Arkansas counties of Mississippi and Crittenden Counties for the AWIN system ?


I would love to have confirmed list for the agencies in the above mentioned area. So that I can update my list.

I travel through the area twice year. So any help would be appreciated a lot

Thanks.
Whenever new TGs are located they should be reported and the database updated. So you should always check the RR database before heading through an area, to get the most recent info.
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  #226 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 8:04 PM
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I don't think anyone has compiled an RID list that I know of. Most of the guys monitoring it, are not on the "deep analysis" level of monitoring. Nothing wrong with that, just no one as crazy into this as some of us. Any listing of AWIN RID's and stuff I may could find, is now very dated. As in 3 or more years old.
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  #227 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 10:30 PM
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OK Officially from sources that went to the last AWIN Meeting...
All Little Rock services, including City Bus and Public Works services will complete transition tomorrow (Tuesday). MEMS ambulance service will switch next week, with Sherwood switching in March (still working on fiber installs to their console) and PCSO switching in April.
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  #228 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 10:41 PM
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OK Officially from sources that went to the last AWIN Meeting...
All Little Rock services, including City Bus and Public Works services will complete transition tomorrow (Tuesday). MEMS ambulance service will switch next week, with Sherwood switching in March (still working on fiber installs to their console) and PCSO switching in April.
I hate that it's taking so long. However, if they all switched at once, it would be harder to figure out who is who. Everyone sounds the same to me on awin.
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  #229 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2014, 3:38 PM
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According to the Arkansas Interoperable Communications Annual Status Report, 95 talkgroups were added in 2011. Several of these have already been identified including the Trauma System, City of Fayetteville and Electric Cooperatives, but does anybody have information on the remaining agencies?

Rogers Fire Department
Carroll County for Eureka Springs Police Department
Clark County Office of Emergency Management - I don't think this is 23001, which I believe is part of the original 75 county template
16th Judicial Drug Task Force
Oklahoma Weather
Oklahoma Mutual Aid
Gulf Coast Interoperability - 16 talkgroups if they link up with the LWIN and TxWARN talkgroups
United States Army Corps of Engineers
United States Coast Guard
University of Arkansas at Fayetteville
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  #230 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2014, 3:54 PM
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Several in Central AR I ID'ed personally while I was living in Garland County. As for the CSSI/ISSI TG's which are the GulfWIN Interop TG's (TXWARN, LWIN, MSWIN - AWIN) should all be identical to what's listed in the TXWARN system... Coming in the next 2 years will also be TACN-AWIN CSSI/ISSI TG's. And also New Madrid Fault Zone Interop TG's which will include links to the MOSWIN. I also have a sneaky suspicion that some of the encrypted ones in the Fayetteville area.. Are UAF.
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Last edited by milf; 02-04-2014 at 4:11 PM..
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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2014, 4:09 PM
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LRPD is working a signal 200 on the new system talkgroup PD-ASP2 if someone is listening and wants to log the talk group number.
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  #232 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 5:24 PM
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Would anybody in the Little Rock area be willing to run Pro96Com or Unitrunker to help identify the remaining unknown talkgroups? Also, are they still simulcasting the new talkgroups on the old analog system?
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  #233 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 5:42 PM
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Yes, the old analog system is active. I have been running is ID Search mode trying to find the LRFD Awin TGIDs, and have not heard them on the new system yet. The LRPD is on there though. This 536HP is supposed to have a program built in to log unknown IDs and record them, but I havent figured out how to do it yet. Still working on getting the favorites list working right. These System/Group/Department all having separate Quick Keys is mind boggling trying to get them all in order and working for a first time user
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 8:43 PM
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The analog will be active until everyone has successfully transitioned to the AWIN side. It will then be used for backup for emergencies for a little while. If my information is correct, by July 1, 2014, there should be absolutely no more use of the analog.
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  #235 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 8:52 PM
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Has the Little Rock Fire Department transitioned yet? I have not been able to catch any of their traffic on an ID search while they are transmitting on the old system...either that, or they are scrambled.

Last edited by davenlr; 02-06-2014 at 9:35 PM..
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  #236 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 9:56 PM
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ALL of Little Rock is supposed to be on the P25. We will find them all eventually just going to take patience.
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  #237 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 11:03 PM
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ALL of Little Rock is supposed to be on the P25. We will find them all eventually just going to take patience.
Im just not understanding this. Im running Discovery mode... its searching LR Simulcast. LRFD puts out a dispatch on the old system, nothing shows up on the discovery mode on Awin. LRPD is coming in, as are several other channels, but none of the LRFD channels are hitting on the new scanner. I find that strange, and I followed the directions in the manual to the letter.
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  #238 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2014, 6:51 AM
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That tells me once again, that there is an delay, as the meeting the other day AWIN coordination spokespersons said that all Little Rock services were to have switched the next day. Apparently, something needed more work done/testing etc. Seems to be a common theme with Pulaski County converting: work not being finished on time, logistics backlogs, funding issues..... In short business as usual.
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  #239 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2014, 4:32 PM
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Apparently, something needed more work done/testing etc.
Maybe it had to do with an apt fire they dispatched, and 5 minutes later, Bat 11 called in on the old system and said they never received the alarm at their station... I would imagine that would make a Chief want some more testing.

I remember the same thing happening when I worked at Central, and they went from UHF single channels to the Motorola trunking system. Took us forever to get it to work right.
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Old 02-09-2014, 3:50 PM
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Guys we really need to pin point this site asap. We know its in Troop C's area of ops. We need to find its location so we can accurately list its range, and GPS data etc....

Also, everyone needs to be looking in every region to find the other undocumented sites so we can fill in the many gaps in the db listings. We know of one such site down around Texarkana that needs Pro96Com, UT. T-88, DSD+ etc, or just one of the newer digi scanners run on it so we get its info.

This is the one in SWA

License WNJI749 Listed as Fouke.
856.8875
857.8875
858.1875
858.8875
859.8875
860.8875
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