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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 7:00 PM
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I think your coming in at a good time. Its going to be interesting to see the change over. You will still have lots to hear. I am not sure what your main interest is in scanning but I am comfortable saying you wont be missing much by losing the commercial users. You would get tired of listening to dump trucks, taxis, couriers pretty fast because they tie up so much of the airtime that you miss anything emergency related. On the next system you will still have pretty much everyone else public safety related which is anything from Fire to DOT and other Govt agencies. As for all the users who are losing their radio system...they will find others. There is PTT or "10-4" phone service. VHF, other systems. I think they will be ok
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Old 03-21-2014, 2:29 PM
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You know it wouldn't totally have surprised me if Bell had decided that in some of the more populated areas, like in Halifax or Sydney or wherever, to keep some of the 800 MHz repeaters active as standalone Motorola SmartNet systems, like maybe in Halifax keep the Geizers Hill repeater alive, just for business customers. Or maybe if a company like Maritime 2-Way purchased some of the equipment. Then again like Res21cue said one of the main reasons behind the new P25 system is obsolescence so it may not be economical for Bell or Maritime 2-Way to keep part of the system running. Although if they did they would have a lot of spare parts from the disused repeater sites at their disposal...
Maritime 2-Way does have an LTR system here in the city though, I wonder if they'll get some additional business when the TMR disappears.

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Originally Posted by rob79 View Post
Fair enough. Like I said I'm brand new to scanning (and amateur radio in general) so I still don't know the ins-and-outs of these things. Either way it looks like I'm starting off at a point where things are going to be changing so it's nice to be able to see the "beginning" of the new system in a glass-half-full kind of way.
Yep good point. When I got into the hobby, the current TMR system had been around for a few years, so the bulk of the talkgroups were already 'discovered'. What I love about this hobby is not necessarily listening to the police responding to a domestic violence dispute (although I do enjoy a good structure fire as much as the next person, as terrible as that sounds upon reflection), but like you it's the technical side of the hobby and discovering new things. This new P25 system is going to have all new talkgroups for us to discover and I'm really looking forward to that.
Hell I've written paragraphs both in public forums and emails with people, trying to analyze and figure out things like for examples HRM fire's VHF paging and backup repeater network, mapping out the location of the repeater sites and the UHF links between them.

What I'm not however looking forward to is not being able to use my analogue scanners on the new system. I have more than one scanner (check my signature block) and during major incidents they can often all be going. However I also love listening to aeronautical and rail, so they still have plenty of years of use left in them.
It's funny, I often go out to Halifax International to watch the action with a friend of mine, I bring my scanner along, he's interested in the planes and seeing what's landing and taking off, I'm glued to the scanner because I'm more interested in what runways they're using, ground vehicles getting clearances to move around on the runway surfaces, what vectors they're giving out to aircraft etc. Not too many people would admit this but I enjoy listening to Shearwater conducting PAR approaches with the Sea Kings..."slightly above glide path, correcting slowly... on track... slightly left of course... " hah


Also just to give you a bit of history Rob, originally (as of a few years ago) the plan was that the new radio system would actually cover all three maritime provinces and would be owned and operated by the provinces and not Bell.. but for various reasons that all fell apart as I believe PEI and NB dropped out and then NS decided to re-think things and are now partnering with Bell once again to operate this new system. I believe there was talk though that it may be extended to cover PEI as well, and possible more of NB than just the existing sites in Fredericton.
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Last edited by hfxChris; 03-21-2014 at 2:35 PM..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2014, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeOxlong View Post
Stickied the thread.
Thanks Mike!
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Old 03-21-2014, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hfxChris View Post
Yep good point. When I got into the hobby, the current TMR system had been around for a few years, so the bulk of the talkgroups were already 'discovered'. What I love about this hobby is not necessarily listening to the police responding to a domestic violence dispute (although I do enjoy a good structure fire as much as the next person, as terrible as that sounds upon reflection), but like you it's the technical side of the hobby and discovering new things. This new P25 system is going to have all new talkgroups for us to discover and I'm really looking forward to that. Hell I've written paragraphs both in public forums and emails with people, trying to analyze and figure out things like for examples HRM fire's VHF paging and backup repeater network, mapping out the location of the repeater sites and the UHF links between them.
We're on the same page. Of course I enjoy listening to a degree, it's interesting to know what's going on out there, but I'm just as happy seeing that I'm connected to the control channel and seeing what groups are active as I am actually listening to what's being said. I'm one of those guys that likes graphs and statistics and that probably says a lot about where my interests lie .

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However I also love listening to aeronautical and rail, so they still have plenty of years of use left in them. It's funny, I often go out to Halifax International to watch the action with a friend of mine, I bring my scanner along, he's interested in the planes and seeing what's landing and taking off, I'm glued to the scanner because I'm more interested in what runways they're using, ground vehicles getting clearances to move around on the runway surfaces, what vectors they're giving out to aircraft etc.
ADS-B was the first thing that I started experimenting with when I got my SDR stuff set up. I find that really interesting as well. I'm still trying to figure out what I'd have to do to actually be able to *hear* anything but that's kind of on the back burner until I get a decent antenna. Right now my ADS-B range is only about 150km (max, 80km is probably a better number as far as reliability goes). I'm ~200km from YHZ (in a straight line) so I figure once I get a better antenna setup my range should improve enough to hear more of the plane stuff.

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Originally Posted by hfxChris View Post
Also just to give you a bit of history Rob, originally (as of a few years ago) the plan was that the new radio system would actually cover all three maritime provinces and would be owned and operated by the provinces and not Bell.. but for various reasons that all fell apart as I believe PEI and NB dropped out and then NS decided to re-think things and are now partnering with Bell once again to operate this new system. I believe there was talk though that it may be extended to cover PEI as well, and possible more of NB than just the existing sites in Fredericton.
Interesting. Honestly I was surprised when I first found out the system was owned by Aliant. It just googled "nova scotia scanner frequencies" one day (this was before I knew ANYTHING about how scanners work, trunking, etc) and ended up here on radioreference. The Guys. Co. page had like 3 volunteer fire frequencies listed but then the link at the bottom to the TMRS system and once I clicked that it was like going down a rabbit hole.I really would have expected things like RCMP/fire to be on a government-controlled system not a private one (for security reasons, access control, etc) but after I thought about it for a few minutes it made sense. I'm looking forward to this new system now, by then I'll have my 2nd RTL dongle so I can do *proper* trunking instead of having to jump off the control channel every time a call goes through.

Last edited by rob79; 03-21-2014 at 3:27 PM.. Reason: Clarification
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Old 03-27-2014, 6:43 PM
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I heard tonight at my monthly fire department meeting that next month EHS will be switching over to the new TMR2, what type of scanners will we need to pick up the new system
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Old 03-27-2014, 6:49 PM
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They are mistaken. The earliest anyone will be moving to the new system is likely the fall as Testing does not even start until this summer. They do not even know what the exact frequencies will be for the new system yet. The projected fully operational date is May of 2015 although EHS will be the first to switch, it will not be anytime before the fall at the earliest. To answer your question...when the new system is online, you will need a scanner that is digital capable and will be able to scan 700mhz freqs.
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Old 03-27-2014, 7:09 PM
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Hey Res21cue - that's the timeframe I've seen around the internet (both here on RR and other sites as well) - "spring 2015".

Do you know what kind of system it's going to be? Not sure of the right terminology exactly but I assume since the current system is P25 the new one will be something...newer. Or is P25 just a guideline and the technology used to implement P25 is called something else? Sorry to be so vague I'm justing having trouble wording my question correctly since I don't really know much about the underlying technology. Thanks.

-Rob.
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Old 03-27-2014, 7:41 PM
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Hey no problem. For lack of better terms...P25 means digital. Right now the current TMR 1 system has both Analog and P25 digital. Example...RCMP are digital and EHS is analog. On the new system, EVERYONE will be P25 digital.

As a side note, the RCMP are only days away from going encrypted so we will not hear them anymore. This will not change with the new system as they will still be encrypted and we will no longer hear them.

Another point... Current TMR 1 system is 800mhz and the new TMR 2 system will be 700mhz so you will need both a digital scanner and one that can do 700mhz.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2014, 8:04 PM
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Ah cool. I'm an SDR person so I can listen to 700Mhz no problem. I can listen to P25 digital now so I guess I won't have to change my setup much. I still can't quite wrap my head around why they are replacing the current system with a system that basically seems (to me, someone who doesn't know much about this stuff) to be the same. The current system can do P25 digital so why don't the current users just all go digital on the current system?

It is a bummer that RCMP is going encrypted - personally I don't really care what they have to say but I like that right now they know that people might be listening. Knowing someone might be listening in keeps you honest after all...

EDIT: I am taking the capacity issues you mentioned earlier in this thread into consideration but I don't get why they can't expand the existing system vs. building an entirely new one.

Last edited by rob79; 03-27-2014 at 8:27 PM..
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:49 AM
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If you really want to be specific the current TMR is an 800 MHz Motorola Type II SmartZone Omnilink system. The digital talkgroups do use P25 voice modulation (P25 by the way being an open standard), however Motorola brands their specific flavour on their systems as ASTRO.

An actual P25 trunked radio system, which is what the TMR-2 will be, is not vendor specific - as said above, Project 25 is an open standard. I should point out while I'm at it, that I am not an expert and this information is of course to the best of my knowledge.

And as to why they can't expand the current system, it's end of life and (supposedly) parts are getting harder to come by, so more expensive to run.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2014, 2:45 PM
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To add to what Chris says, there is normally a contracted ' up ' time that the provider of the system must guarantee. As systems get older (lifespans seem to be in the 10-15 year range, depending on system & terms) they tend to have more outages. We've begun to see a few outages over the last couple of years, and that may well be a reflection of the age of the system, and might in fact be bringing them close to the limit of acceptable unavailability.
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Old 03-29-2014, 8:13 PM
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Very good point. Also welcome to the forums!
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2014, 9:48 PM
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so will my PSR 500 still work for the new digtal all but the rcmp ?
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Old 04-09-2014, 8:55 AM
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Morning folks - while doing my "regular" searches for 700 MHz across the country, I've found some licenses pending (status 0) in Spectrum Direct that might be of interest to you.

Look for licensee name NS Dept. of Trans. & Infrastr. Ren. Public Safety & Field Comm. Office in Spectrum Direct.

If I'm feeling benevolent later today or later this week, I might throw a Google Map together (if I can figure out how to make custom maps with the new GM interface).

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Old 04-09-2014, 9:16 AM
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hfx_chris beat you too it I think. TAFL listed the freq a few days ago.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/ed...g.kdpkScGL-7Qg
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Old 04-09-2014, 9:25 AM
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Excellent. Just keep in mind that the TAFL is updated once a month, while Spectrum Direct updates every morning around 0600 AST.
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Old 04-09-2014, 9:28 AM
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Home - Spectrum Direct

Thats the website I use. I called it Industry Canada's TAFL. I wassnt aware there was something different?
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Old 04-09-2014, 10:36 AM
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Gotcha. That one is the most up-to-date one.

There are some people who download the data files from Industry Canada at the following site:

Home - Technical and Administrative Frequency Lists

and create their own web searches for them. I forget the URLs but I have seen 'darkwing', 'polkaroo', etc., as part of the site name.

Those are the ones which are updated only once a month (as of this writing they're from 2014-03-31). The site you (and I) visit is updated daily, as I said before.
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Old 04-09-2014, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Res21cue View Post
hfx_chris beat you too it I think. TAFL listed the freq a few days ago.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/ed...g.kdpkScGL-7Qg
My Google map for the current TMR was so popular, I couldn't let somebody beat me to one for the next-gen system
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Old 04-10-2014, 6:51 PM
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Marscan and Newt on Scan Maritimes reported that they were picking up a P25 control channel on 769.25625 tonight, and identified it as Whites Lake (or as we'll probably keep calling it, Prospect)

I took a drive out that way tonight with Pro96Com running on my laptop and got the following system and site information:


System ID is 687 (hex)
WACN BEE00

Whites Lake reported RFSS 1 and site ID 44.
Primary CC 769.25625 and alternate CC 769.50625.

The site also reported neighbours of 769.18125 (site 45) and 773.18125 (site 46) - both offline.
I would hazard a guess sites 45 and 46 will be Tantallon and Geizer's Hill...
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