RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Commercial, Professional Radio and Personal Radio > Budget and Entry Level Transceivers


Budget and Entry Level Transceivers - For discussion of budget or entry level radios such as Baofeng, Wouxun, Puxing and other radio communications designated as commercial but not targeted for Amateur or GMRS. Also included are MURS and ISM 900MHz designed radios.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2017, 3:51 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Default RDS transmission on Baofeng UV-5R

Hello all,

I recently purchased 2 Baofeng UV-5R radios and I am looking to connect them up for repeater functionality. For example, I am going to be connecting them wirelessly by setting the Rx of one to 106.2 and the Tx to 440.4. The second unit will have a Rx set to 440.4 and the Tx to be 106.2. This will function as a wireless repeater (I only need a one way repeater for my application).

My question is this, are the radios capable of repeating the RDS?

I am using the FM RDS to control a device. And I would like to extend the range of my transmitter. (It is currently a little tiny ADAfruit transmitter (https://www.adafruit.com/product/1958)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2017, 6:16 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Woodlands, MB
Posts: 607
Default

As far as I know, the UV-5R can't transmit on 106.2 Mhz.

Even if it could, it's not capable of the +/- 75 Khz bandwidth used by commercial FM stations. The UV-5R can only transmit narrow band FM (+/- 5Khz).
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 11:23 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,051
Default

106 Mhz is not in the amateur radio band. It is illegal to transmit there. 440 is in the amateur radio band. A license is required to transmit there.

AntiSquid Disclaimer: All posted content is personal opinion only and may not imply fact or accusation.
__________________
John KD8DVR/WQWK521

All comments may or may not resemble actual fact. Any message posted constitutes opinion only.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 12:26 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 81
Default

Well...

The legality has been touched upon.

The equipment limitation has been touched upon.

I think that's it!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 12:33 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: .AT
Posts: 1,245
Default

Quote:
It is illegal to transmit there
no its not.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 1:28 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Default

Hello all,

thank you for your replies.

please note that I was simply using those frequencies as an example. I am mainly looking at the hardware limitations to see if the radio transmitters could repeat the FM wave with RDS.

I picked those frequencies because these are the first ones that came up in my mind. I apologize for any confusion.

If the UV-5R is unable to repeat the RDS, could anyone recommend some repeaters that can re-transmit the RDS?

(For anyone wondering, I am working for someone that does in fact have a radio liscense)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 1:44 PM
k2ool's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,160
Default

None of this will work anyhow.
Transmit is 136-174 and 400-512MHZ.
It does not decode RDS.
It does not transmit 106.2 at all nor will it ever.
Any 5 watt walkie talkie is a bad idea for a repeater of any kind.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 4:16 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: .AT
Posts: 1,245
Default

You need an Radio Encoder for RDS.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 6:20 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Your_account View Post
You need an Radio Encoder for RDS.
The adaFruit transmitter that I am using already comes with an RDS encoder built in. I am wondering if there is an FM repeater that is capable of repeating FM and the RDS transmission. Or is it better to utilize an amplifier.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 10:37 PM
chief21's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Summer - western NC mountains; Winter - central FL gulf coast
Posts: 500
Default

Simply put, a FM broadcast transmission, which contains the RDS information within, requires a very high-bandwidth signal. A two-way FM radio, either commercial land mobile or amateur, is designed to operate with a much lower-bandwidth signal and does not have the capability to transmit a broadcast-compatible signal. The same is true of land mobile or amateur repeaters.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2017, 10:58 PM
mmckenna's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SNCZCA01DS0
Posts: 7,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by philm001 View Post
The adaFruit transmitter that I am using already comes with an RDS encoder built in. I am wondering if there is an FM repeater that is capable of repeating FM and the RDS transmission. Or is it better to utilize an amplifier.
Maybe if you described exactly what you want to do in some more detail, we could make some recommendations. There are likely ways to do what you want, but with the limited information you've provided, all we'd be doing is guessing.

In other words, the details are important, as is what sort of licenses you have, where you are located, etc.
__________________
--------------------
Beer me.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 9:50 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
Maybe if you described exactly what you want to do in some more detail, we could make some recommendations. There are likely ways to do what you want, but with the limited information you've provided, all we'd be doing is guessing.

In other words, the details are important, as is what sort of licenses you have, where you are located, etc.
Sure thing, I am not 100% sure what kind of license our client has (I am developing this project for a client) but I do know they can handle 5 W are are located in Toledo, Ohio.

I am primarily using the RDS in order to control a device which is capable of recording an FM broadcast into memory. There are additional functions that the device can perform with RDS but the main purpose is for recording an FM broadcast. Maximum time is 30 sec of recording.

So primarily we are developing this for RDS control.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 6:14 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Campbell County, Wyoming
Posts: 336
Default

philM001-

RDS information is actually on a sub-carrier of the FM broadcast station. Any 'repeater' you can get "off the shelf' is unlikely to repeat the sub-carrier. Also few if any 'off the shelve' units will handle the FM stereo sub-carrier. As already mentioned, a better description of the problem (general parameters, data ect) will help in finding a solution.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 9:40 PM
mmckenna's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SNCZCA01DS0
Posts: 7,224
Default

So, I guess I'm not understanding something...

Why are you trying to repeat an FM broadcast signal? Why don't you just receive the broadcast signal, decode the RDS and use it as is? The extra radios in the middle are confusing me as to their purpose.
__________________
--------------------
Beer me.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 8:19 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Default

The FM broadcast is coming from our adaFruit transmitter and we would like to extend the range through a repeater.

The adaFruit transmitter only gives us about 20 - 30 feet.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 10:31 AM
mmckenna's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SNCZCA01DS0
Posts: 7,224
Default

Ah, OK, now that makes sense.

So, there are ways to do this, figuring out which one is right is up to you:
1. FCC does Experimental Licenses. That might be an option. It would let you transmit on FM broadcast band, or somewhere close by.
2. Use a long coax run. I know, probably not what you want to hear.
3. You mentioned the company is allowed up to 5 watts? I'd research that and get some clarification.
4. If the company's license allows that, look at what the limit is. Is it 5 watts transmitter output, or 5 watts ERP? If it's 5 watts ERP, then you are stuck with that. If it's 5 watts TPO and there's no limitation on antenna gain, then you can try higher gain antennas to boost coverage.

As others have stated, the amount of bandwidth you need and the ability to handle the subcarriers is going to pretty much limit you to using transmitters designed for the FM broadcast band.
__________________
--------------------
Beer me.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 10:47 AM
jonwienke's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,732
Default

Not possible. Or legal.

FM stereo broadcast has a much wider channel width than what the Baofeng will handle. You can't repeat a 200KHz-wide broadcast channel through a radio that only does maximum 25KHz-wide channels. Your RDS subcarrier will be lost, and your audio frequency response will be limited to about 300-3000Hz mono, rather than 20-20,000Hz stereo.

Also, there are strict limits on power levels for unlicensed use of FM stereo broadcast frequencies.

You're limited to a range of 200 feet:
https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/low-...al-information

https://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/o...3/oet63rev.pdf
Note the table on page 15.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 3:00 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: .AT
Posts: 1,245
Default

Quote:
The adaFruit transmitter only gives us about 20 - 30 feet.
oke and how big is your feet?!
Ok its is not cheap but maybe with an SDR?
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 3:17 PM
16b's Avatar
16b 16b is offline
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 471
Default

Sounds like an interesting project, and those little Adafruit boards are neat. Might have to buy me one to play with.

One option for increased coverage would be to have several FM transmitters throughout your desired coverage area, and simulcast your messages on all of them. Of course this would require them to be networked together in some way.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 2:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions