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Budget and Entry Level Transceivers - For discussion of budget or entry level radios such as Baofeng, Wouxun, Puxing and other radio communications designated as commercial but not targeted for Amateur or GMRS. Also included are MURS and ISM 900MHz designed radios.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2017, 6:00 PM
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Legally, you can only use those with a ham radio license, but getting a technician class license is not hard and not expensive, and that would allow you to use the 2m / 144MHz frequencies which would be about as good as those can be.

Otherwise, the BF radios are problematic. the HP exceeds the safe power limit when used on high power. You could program in the MURS frequencies and probably run the least risk and do the most effective communication with them that way, illegally. But to do that, if you just bought some used commercial MURS radios online, you'd probably find the performed better and were more reliable, especially in the cold or rain. (Better weatherproofing.)

Odds of getting caught for illegal use in the boonies? Slim. Unless the local game wardens have been listening on because they're sometimes looking for folks who are cheating on the hunting laws, too. What happens I you get caught? Could be a $5-10,000 fine for each of you.

Compared to $14 for getting a 10-year ham radio tech license. OK, $50 for the license, if you buy a book to study for it as well.(G)
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2017, 9:26 PM
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@SpugEddy well said! For me, it's simple: Letter of the law vs. Spirit of the law. If not interfering with anyone, who cares - that's all the law aims to achieve - if it's achieved through licensing then great - if it's achieved by being 100 miles from anyone else that's just as good because the essence of the law is still achieved.

By the way, you're right about the legal eagles. This is not criminal law we're talking about. Just like speeding is a violation of vehicle code, not penal code (ie: non-criminal) ... This is also a code violation at best - and there is no precedence for any fine in the thousands.


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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelstephen View Post
This is also a code violation at best - and there is no precedence for any fine in the thousands.


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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 3:00 AM
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As a Brit - the thing I find interesting is the notion of not having a proper road within 100 miles. In the UK - NOBODY - is more than 100 miles from the sea, so the concept of being somewhere so big and empty is just a concept we find difficult. In radio terms, even if the area had a big mountain right in the middle, with a repeater on top, 50m to a portable from the centre to the edge is impossible to manage reliably, so portable to portable in any kind, any price just won't work. Satellites is the way to go.

I have heard of a few people who have found unprotected up and downlinks to military satellites, but I suspect using these would be somewhat risky nowadays.
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Old 06-20-2017, 7:57 AM
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I do have to agree with the spirit of the law being addressed here, even if the letter of the law is being bent somewhat. The probability of interference will be most likely around .00000001% or less. I do not condone doing things illegally, but then again there can be reasonable exceptions in situations where common sense would dictate that application of rules is unnecessary - but that's not going to happen.

However, I have the solution. Get some CB radio's with 100 watt linear amplifiers and chat until your heart is content - the FCC is doing absolutely NOTHING about that band at all. You can talk all over the country, tie up a channel for a few states around you, splash adjacent channels in both directions (sometimes 2 or 3 each way), and basically potentially monopolize 5 CB channels all day. The same people have been on for years, sometimes decades, and nobody bats an eye.

I don't believe for a millisecond that there is any enforcement at all on MURS, especially as far as being 3 watts over the limit or not having a type accepted radio. Can anyone point to fines being handed out for either of those issues?

How about those GMRS bubble pack radios? How many thousands upon thousands of those are being used illegally in both urban and suburban areas where they ARE causing interference? There is not much enforcement where there are flagrant violations going on every minute of every day.

Just my .02 anyway.
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Old 06-20-2017, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC1 View Post
I do have to agree with the spirit of the law being addressed here, even if the letter of the law is being bent somewhat. The probability of interference will be most likely around .00000001% or less. I do not condone doing things illegally, but then again there can be reasonable exceptions in situations where common sense would dictate that application of rules is unnecessary - but that's not going to happen.



However, I have the solution. Get some CB radio's with 100 watt linear amplifiers and chat until your heart is content - the FCC is doing absolutely NOTHING about that band at all. You can talk all over the country, tie up a channel for a few states around you, splash adjacent channels in both directions (sometimes 2 or 3 each way), and basically potentially monopolize 5 CB channels all day. The same people have been on for years, sometimes decades, and nobody bats an eye.



I don't believe for a millisecond that there is any enforcement at all on MURS, especially as far as being 3 watts over the limit or not having a type accepted radio. Can anyone point to fines being handed out for either of those issues?



How about those GMRS bubble pack radios? How many thousands upon thousands of those are being used illegally in both urban and suburban areas where they ARE causing interference? There is not much enforcement where there are flagrant violations going on every minute of every day.



Just my .02 anyway.


Spot on.


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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 8:05 AM
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I don't s'pose it matters anymore but is the amplifier on CB legal? You have given him another illegal act to choose from, though.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 8:39 AM
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I don't s'pose it matters anymore but is the amplifier on CB legal? You have given him another illegal act to choose from, though.
No, not legal at all, but like you said it probably does not matter anymore anyway.

And I have not revealed anything not already well known, I have not given anybody an undiscovered choice from which to choose. That "option" has been around for more than 50 years, lol.
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Old 06-20-2017, 8:56 AM
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The real question is why take that 1 in a million chance that you could interfere with a possible emergency. The attitude, even if using a legal frequency like MURS with second rate equipment, sounds like someone who would ignore legal use even in time of an emergency.
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Old 06-20-2017, 8:57 AM
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what did people and hunters do in the old day with OUT Radios?
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 9:14 AM
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Originally Posted by davidzimmerman View Post
what did people and hunters do in the old day with OUT Radios?
Smoke signals!
But only as long as the fire is no more than 3 feet around (including the rocks used to contain it), uses no more than 10 pieces of firewood (Blue Spruce only) that must be within a 10% tolerance of 2' long x 4" round, and can produce no more than 50,000btu's ERP including gain.
The smoke blanket must be an approved unit by OSHA as conforming to fire retardant standards, along with an officially inspected fire extinguisher and 8 quart bucket of water standing by.

Oh, and don't forget you need a burn permit too.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 9:17 AM
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The real question is why take that 1 in a million chance that you could interfere with a possible emergency.
No public safety agency or any other emergency response entity is using MURS or CB freqs, expecially in the area being discussed, so this argument is a strawman full of excrement.

Nobody in the general public has ever been fined solely for using non-type-accepted radios on an otherwise legal-to-use frequency (FRS, GMRS, MURS, etc.).

Enforcement of transmit power level is pretty much non existent on public frequencies as well. Unless you're deliberately being a jerk and operating several orders of magnitude above the limit, nobody cares.

I'd suggest a few satellite phones for emergency comms (medevac, SAR calls, etc), Stryker 955HPs in the vehicles for long-range communications (no external amp needed), and Baofengs on MURS/FRS/GMRS for short-range comms. Is it technically legal? no, but neither is driving 73 in a 70 zone, and nobody is going to pull you over for that.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC1 View Post
Smoke signals!
But only as long as the fire is no more than 3 feet around (including the rocks used to contain it), uses no more than 10 pieces of firewood (Blue Spruce only) that must be within a 10% tolerance of 2' long x 4" round, and can produce no more than 50,000btu's ERP including gain.
The smoke blanket must be an approved unit by OSHA as conforming to fire retardant standards, along with an officially inspected fire extinguisher and 8 quart bucket of water standing by.

Oh, and don't forget you need a burn permit too.


LoL - don't forget they had to bribe the Sheriff with illegal hooch whenever he would come around to check on them.


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Old 06-20-2017, 9:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwienke View Post
No public safety agency or any other emergency response entity is using MURS or CB freqs, expecially in the area being discussed, so this argument is a strawman full of excrement.



Nobody in the general public has ever been fined solely for using non-type-accepted radios on an otherwise legal-to-use frequency (FRS, GMRS, MURS, etc.).



Enforcement of transmit power level is pretty much non existent on public frequencies as well. Unless you're deliberately being a jerk and operating several orders of magnitude above the limit, nobody cares.



I'd suggest a few satellite phones for emergency comms (medevac, SAR calls, etc), Stryker 955HPs in the vehicles for long-range communications (no external amp needed), and Baofengs on MURS/FRS/GMRS for short-range comms. Is it technically legal? no, but neither is driving 73 in a 70 zone, and nobody is going to pull you over for that.


Spot on!

I also checked case law (just for fun) - fully agree seems that no one has ever been fined for this. I'd prefer to see an investigation for misuse of federal funds if someone was inclined to look into excrement, then see the dollars spent chasing 3 watts over on non-type approved gear in the middle of no-where. Am I wrong, or there are still real issues in this country where we should focus federal funding?


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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 2:17 PM
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This post has some relevant info:
https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=78234

Basically he recommends MURS and GMRS, along with some business itinerant frequencies for use at burning man. Similar situation.
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Old 06-20-2017, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by paulears View Post
As a Brit - the thing I find interesting is the notion of not having a proper road within 100 miles. In the UK - NOBODY - is more than 100 miles from the sea, so the concept of being somewhere so big and empty is just a concept we find difficult. In radio terms, even if the area had a big mountain right in the middle, with a repeater on top, 50m to a portable from the centre to the edge is impossible to manage reliably, so portable to portable in any kind, any price just won't work. Satellites is the way to go.

I have heard of a few people who have found unprotected up and downlinks to military satellites, but I suspect using these would be somewhat risky nowadays.
We consider it weird that 25W mobiles are normal for y'all. 50W is our normal...100W is our high power (actually 110W).

Anyway...Texline, TX to Laredo, TX (NW tip of the panhandle to the southern tip) is 899 miles by road (right around 1440 km). It just occurred to me that Albuquerque, NM is almost as far from the Pacific Ocean as it is the Gulf of Mexico. I know people who have never seen the ocean.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2017, 5:09 PM
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"In the UK - NOBODY - is more than 100 miles from the sea"
I believe that is why your late Mr. Churchill referred to it as an "island nation".
I've had overseas visitors here in the Colonies who were amazed that we could take a five hour highway trip without having to pass through any Customs checkpoints. Here? Yes, we think of states as "six hours long" "four hours long" "ten hours long" on road trips.
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Old 06-20-2017, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpugEddy View Post
I happen to be one of those people who would rather just
answer the OP's question than to get into the "legal" debate.
Almost every time a thread involves a Baofeng radio the "legal"
debate always rears it's ugly head. I too have to shake my head
and laugh because the same question goes through my head
every time I see the "legal" debate starting.

This question goes to all of the "Legal Eagles" who love to
quote and cite "the law"
If you were to be driving on a desert road in the middle of
nowhere, nobody is anywhere near you, and you know that
there is no police sitting on the side of the road with a radar
setup. Would you still be sitting in your car with both hands
at 2 and 10, seat belts on, with your speedometer sitting
on 54mph? I hardly think so. It matters not, how you answer
me here in this thread, but what matters is the real truth.

The moral? When you can honestly say that you NEVER, EVER
exceed the speed limit. When you can say that you NEVER, EVER
cheated on your tax return, only then, do you have the right to
start quoting and citing laws when it comes to talking on airwaves.

Instead of getting frustrated by the "law breakers" and "cheaters", just answer
the questions and let the user use his/her own judgement. Remember that
saying? Judge not...
Well said, thank you .
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