4 Young Children Die in Police Chase

[LGLHOOK]

FRESNO, Calif. (Aug. 9) - The California Highway Patrol says a car fleeing from police ran a stop sign and slammed into a pickup, killing three people in the car and four young children in the truck.
The patrol says police in Dinuba, southeast of Fresno, were trying to stop the car Saturday afternoon for a traffic infraction.
The patrol says the truck was carrying two adults and their five children. Four of the children — ages 1, 3, 4 and 7 — were ejected and died at the scene. The fifth child — age 8 — and the parents were taken to a hospital. The adults were identified as 29-year-old Carlos Salazar Jr. and 26-year-old Jennifer Salazar of Orange Cove.
All three men in the car being chased were killed. Their identities and ages weren't known.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press.

[JoeyC]

Nauseating how the media always places the fault of these things on the police by way of the headline, instead of stating the actual cause of the devastation by writing something like "Erratic driver kills 7 while attempting to elude police"

[gewecke]

Very tragic...In illinois, the ISP have a "do not chase" policy for minor traffic infractions. They will
simply get your 28,then you have to come home sometime,right!
N9ZAS.

[JoeyC]

Lots of agencies have "do not chase" policies for infractions as well - I don't know about CHP. Unfortunately, I have been unable to determine by reading the media reports how long this alleged pursuit lasted. If the idiot crashed into this truck in short order after being lit up by the CHP, I find it difficult to classify this as a chase. We don't know anything based on the reporting, probably because it would not look as sensational knowing the facts - if in fact there was no long drawn out chase involved.

[karldotcom]

uh...Dinuba Police were pursuing the car...which was stolen.

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?se...cal&id=6955341

[emt_531]

It was Dinuba PD pursuing and the pursuit had just started. The car was not stolen as far as I heard. I was listening to this whole ordeal on the scanner. The initial reason for the stop was an infraction. I hope 7 peoples lives were worth that infraction. The sad part is, those 4 kids just got killed and nobody (Dinuba PD) will ever have to answer to it. After the court ruling that doesnt allow agencies to be held liable for deaths during pursuits. Lets go out and drive like a bunch of maniacs for an infraction and kill a bunch of people and wake up tomorrow and do it again.....Things like this make me sick to my stomach......Glad it wasnt anyone I knew......

[swstow]

i have one small problem if the media goes after the police for the death of the children, i saw a short clip of the scene the pickup looks like a reg cab truck, but i could be wrong, but if im not, the truck only holds at max three people ( the three that are alive ) if the kids are in the back ( bed ) of the truck, it would seem to me that the parents hold some blame NEVER PUT ANYBODY IN THE BED OF A TRUCK i may inflame some but i sorry, the same loss of life could have happend of the kids were in the bed of the truck it had a tire blow out and the driver lost control of the truck and rolled on it own,

im very sorry for the familys loss but hate to see cops get all the blame , i sure some media outlets will be doing

[W2GLD]

This is a VERY unfortunate incident, however a "Do Not Chase" policy does, I repeat "DOES NOT" keep these criminals from running as proven in several cases around the U.S in the past few years.

Additionally, one main reason criminals begin to run is the very fact that they know most agencies will not pursue them and then they get away. This has driven the criminal element to push the limits more and more and is one reason crime continues to rise around the U.S. because we limit the powers of the police officers to pursue just because of civil liability...

The criminals will continue to run, regardless of a department’s pursuit policy and until we, as a society stand up to these criminals and start chasing them down like the dogs they are, crime will surely continue to flourish and police departments around the globe will lose more control and then we are surely headed for anarchy...

It's a tragic loss without a doubt, but is the police agency to blame, I think not but as we all know the media will make it their fault and drive the citizens into an uproar...

[RadMarv]

According to this page showing the route of the chase it covered 4 miles in 11 minutes.

Dinuba chase and crash - Google Maps

I've read that the 5th child died at the hospital.

[commstar]

OMG, the Police did not kill these people. The driver that decided his personal liberty was more important than the other heartbeats in the car did. Not the Police.

Are drivers not even responsible for their own actions in California these days?

I have a California law enforcement background and fully support pursuing vehicles in almost most instances.

In my experience, many times the vehicles tend to be involved in other, often yet unreported crimes and the termination of the pursuit makes follow-up much more difficult/impossible and tends to enable the suspect to run again/complete more crimes.

I have been involved in pursuits where a car had a taillamp out, three males aboard, and ran when the unit tried to stop it. The pursuit terminated when the vehicle flipped on an off-ramp ejecting a killing two of the the three aboard.

Sad?

No, not really, they were all parolee gang members and were armed to the teeth.

Subsequent investigation revealed they were about a mile away from doing a drive-by shooting on some other loosers bbq at a park when the Officer tried to stop them.

We had no idea this was the case at the time of the pursuit I know of many similar cases.

How many lives were saved by not letting that vehicle go? I think it is incumbent upon the police to protect society from folks that act like this and making an arrest is part of that process.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy pursuits (or did more aptly) but I think the social benefit outweighs the dangers presented in most cases.

The driver should have done the right thing and stopped as the law requires.

What happened after that is on him not the Police.

[karldotcom]

I dont see how the police would be at fault at all for this. The car was carjacked, so you have felons, and none of the 4 kids were properly restrained in the truck.

If you are so interested in "justice" perhaps the father should be charged for those infractions.

[avtarsingh]

karl beat me to it -

senseless deaths because of the lack of restraints

i see it all day long - kids jumping around in the seats while mom or dad is on the phone

they really need to push the cell phone to points violations on their record -

the cell phone law is a joke - i see little or no change put high fines and points on their license since they are too stupid to go to walmart and buy a 3-4 dollar earphone or bluetooth

[gmclam]

Car chases and California are all too common companions. I rarely hear a chase any more that does not end up in a foot bail. The resources required are incredible - set up a perimeter, call in K9 and air support. I hate the fact that most of the time these idiots are slapped on the wrist and back out to do it again the next day.

Originally Posted by LGLHOOK

All three men in the car being chased were killed. Their identities and ages weren't known.

At least there is this piece of bright news in the story. Think of all the taxpayer money saved for detaining, housing and trying these people.

[zerg901]

How many chases cause deaths? How many chases prevent deaths?

------------------------------------------

High-speed police pursuits: dangers, dynamics, and risk reduction - Police Pursuits

That 1998 article clearly shows that the public is at much greater risk than police officers.

Dangerous Pursuits

That 2003 article again shows police to be at much lower risk than civilians - and only 17% of the people being chased are serious felons.

The Thought Process Behind High Speed Police Pursuits | Socyberty

That is a July 2009 article that gives a good overview of chase decisions

Peter Sz at 1213PM EDT

[gmclam]

Originally Posted by zerg901

... That 1998 article clearly shows that the public is at much greater risk than police officers. ...

That article is over 10 years old. I don't know about you, but I hear a lot more "foot chases" and drivers not pulling over these days. It seems like someone needs to do a study that shows how much more willing felons are to flee when they know they will not be chased.

[kma371]

OK everyone, this has no radio relation....turn it that direction or topic will be moved or locked