Fire Tone Out HELP!!!!!!!

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judas12

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Can Someone explain to me what a fire tone out is please? i cant figure it out. Also, is it possible to listen to only one fire station? like Cerritos or Norwalk (L.A. County Fire) or do i just have to be monitoring Blue 8 Dispacth and Blue 1 South all the time.

Thanks
 

RobVallejo

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A fire tone out is a series of audible tones broadcast over a dispatch frequency which alert specific resources that they have an assignment. These tones can activate fire station alarms, pagers, crew bus signal bells, and other devices which all serve to get the attention of the appropriate personnel. The term tone out can also refer to the portion of a dispatch broadcast which includes these tones.

Many radios include a monitoring feature which helps to prevent having to listen to the constant stream of traffic on many dispatch frequencies. When this feature is engaged, none of the radio transmissions are audible until after a specific set of tones are broadcast. In this way, firefighters in relatively slow stations can sleep during the night without having to listen to the radio. The radio is muted until they are dispatched. Then, the tones for their station or apparatus are broadcast and activates their radio, pagers, station alarm, etc.

There are many different types of tone outs. Some are several seconds long and have two tones. Some are less than a second have 4 or 5 tones and sound like pressing speed dial on a touch tone phone.

If you have a scanner or radio with the monitoring feature, you can probably mute out all the routine radio traffic. To do this, you would need to program in the tones for the station or apparatus which you are interested in. That way, your radio only turns on when that station or apparatus is being toned out.

Things to note: sometimes the tones are assigned to a station, not an apparatus. If the people or equipment you are interested in are bumped up to another station for a cover assignment, they would be toned out with that new station's tones. Conversely, if you are only interested in a particular station, and the tones are assigned to different apparatuses, then would have to reprogram your radio whenever a cover crew was in the station.

The agency I previously worked for had a dispatch system which would automatically sound a group quick call tone, activating every station in the county, whenever more than 3 stations were selected to respond. Thus our station's alarm was often activated even when we had no assignment.

I hope this has been helpful. Good luck.
 

Eng74

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Can Someone explain to me what a fire tone out is please? i cant figure it out. Also, is it possible to listen to only one fire station? like Cerritos or Norwalk (L.A. County Fire) or do i just have to be monitoring Blue 8 Dispacth and Blue 1 South all the time.

Thanks

LACoFD stations do not use a 1+1 tone-out for their station's main alerting system. They have one that is a back-up that gets tested every saturday morning I think. The tone-outs you do hear on Blue 8 are the BC's and some others. Are you tring to use a Uniden radio with tone out? If you do set it up the best thing to do is to set the delay time to Infinite that way you know when it has been toned out. If you do want it for just one station that is the only one you load. The one down side to the tone-out system is that when you use it you are locked on that channel and only hear the radio traffic when it gets toned out. So it is really just muteing the radio.
 

saboken

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Lost Searching for tones

I just got a BCD996P2 I know it has a Tone search feature but I have been trying to decode the audio I recorded all day, Non of the Free Software I installed seems to be working? I think ComTekk Two-Tone Decoder $49.95 ComTekk Multi Decoder $69.95 (NO Trial Versions) might work but I cant justify the cost for just decoding 3 maybe 4 tones? Anyone have any Ideas I live in Walhalla Oconee County South Carolina. I would be glad to post the codes I find if I can figure out how?

Thanks Ken
 

Voyager

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Program the tones for 0 Hz each slot and that will start a TONE SEARCH. Also extend the delay to INFINITE so it does not clear before you can read the tones. The scanner will show the first FTO it hears. Reset it to show the next FTO.
 

saboken

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Thanks

I got 1 tone now I just have to wait till the station is dispatched. Thanks
 

jeatock

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WARNING!!! Deep dark Geek stuff

Bear with me, please.

Back in the day, radios were introduced that were muted until a audio tone "switch" was thrown. When the switch was activated, the radio would "open" so voices could be head. Those tones were very low, 60 to 250 Hz, and filtered out of the speaker's audio stream - voices are normally 300-3,000 Hz and not affected. Transmissions and interference that didn't have the correct tone would remain muted.

Originally, radios had a mechanical reed that would vibrate at a particular audio frequency, always responding to the "raw" audio even when the speaker was muted. When the reed seriously vibrated because the radio heard the right harmonic audio tone, the reed's motion caused a magnet on the end to generate a second signal that activated a switch opening up the radio. This was the original CTCSS or Private-Line (PL) system. ("Private" is misleading- an "open" radio doesn't care about private tones and can still hear everything.)

That worked so well a second sequential tone was added for paging, and possibly do other things like blow a horn or turn on the lights. Both tones would have to be received in sequence for anything to happen. This became the famous "Two-Tone" one-second-three-second tone paging system. There are many similar systems.

The next paging evolution was to open the radio whenever either reed vibrated for a long time, like five seconds. This became a "group" or long tone page.

[Sidebar: DCS/DPL codes are a time-varied single low audio tone - around 100 Hz - that send-pause-send-pause-etc. in a particular sequence sending a binary number. Same thing as CTCSS, but different.]

Station alerting was introduced as a house-wide radio that would be quiet at night (sleepy-time) but raise Holy Hell when the station's unique tones were received, in theory louder than snoring firefighters. Effectively, a fixed-install pager that made noise and turned on the lights. That was a good plan, and has evolved even further with the introduction of digital and IP systems. Unfortunately everyone's idea is better than everyone else's, so there is no single standard. Folks who have been around radio long enough can ignore the voices, but their ear can detect their familiar 2-tone sound and bolt them into action.

Nowadays radios are computers with an antenna. Mechanical vibrating reeds are long gone, so the audio tones can be more complex. CTCSS, MDC, 2-tone, 5-tone and DTMF (telephone dial tone) audio tone sequences are decoded by a radio and cause it to do something.

The commonly deployed 2-tone system has several hundred possible codes, enough for each station in a large district. 5-tone and DTMF can have hundreds of thousands unique codes, with the advantage of using wildcards in the radio's decode mask. A Chief or particular apparatus can be alerted with "12345". Using wildcards a "12???" decode mask will activate on both "12345" and "12999". The actual coding is up to the system designer, and once again there is no standard.

For your particular location, it is going to take some investigation, and decoding and opening on a unique station code may be difficult or impossible. Some higher-end scanners will allow you to program in a decode sequence for a station, most will not. Of those that do most will only decode a 2-tone sequence, but that is going to cost you. Many newer scanners will require a CTCSS or DCS code to open, but then you hear all traffic, not just a call to a particular station.

Download "Audacity" to find audio tones. A standard tone chart can be downloaded from https://www.midians.com/pdf/tone-signaling-charts.pdf. Audio tones have decimal precision, but you need to allow 2 or 3% error. Reality: they are not that precise.

Digital and MDC-1200 transmissions are a whole other complex can of worms to figure out.

Hopefully, knowing the how and why will help you (and others) figure out your local system. Reverse-engineering can be a rewarding challenge.
 
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PaulNDaOC

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Can Someone explain to me what a fire tone out is please? i cant figure it out. Also, is it possible to listen to only one fire station? like Cerritos or Norwalk (L.A. County Fire) or do i just have to be monitoring Blue 8 Dispacth and Blue 1 South all the time.

Thanks

You can utilize the tone-outs for BC 21 (Norwalk, East Cerritos, 35's area) and BC 9 which is headquartered at FS 30 on Pioneer

Battalion 9 855.5 1433.4

Battalion 21 767.4 1285.8
 

Voyager

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[Sidebar: DCS/DPL codes are a time-varied single low audio tone - around 100 Hz - that send-pause-send-pause-etc. in a particular sequence sending a binary number. Same thing as CTCSS, but different.]

The commonly deployed 2-tone system has several hundred possible codes,

Actually, DPL runs at 134 Hz and there are 11 sets of Motorola standard tone groups (10 tones each) for 1+1 which yields about 11,000 tone sets not including group call tones. (12,100 including group calls)

2+2 runs that up to around 121 Million combinations although 2+2 usually was only used in three tone groups (A, B, and Z) which restricts it to a mere 810 thousand possibilities minus the combinations where the two tones are the same for the first or second set. Still, a lot of possible combinations.
 

jeatock

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Voyager:

Come on; 134.4 Hz "is around" 100 (as opposed to 60.7 or 254.1. That is not anything that a normal end user can change or program. It occupies the slot between the 131.8 and 136.5 CTCSS EIA standard tones. I can confirm issues with 131.8 and 136.5 CTCSS radios opening up on foreign DCS transmissions due to the proximity and inaccuracy of both transmitters and receivers.

That same inaccuracy applies to the 2-tone overall selection. From my experience the harmonic and proximity combinations coupled with tone tolerance in the radios reduces the total available combinations by a substantial factor. Yes, if you do the math from the EIA standard table there are thousands of combinations. I carry a copy of that pdf on my phone. If you add in non-standard tones and and other manufacturer's protocols there are even more, but you are hard pressed to program a Centracom or Zetron to accept them.

Different protocols use different tone and inter-tone silence timing, but that is also pretty sloppy. The QC-2 standard is a 1-0-3s sequence, but 0.5-0.1-1.2s Minitors (and FLS-Informers, et al.) are pretty common, since they don't work reliably at much longer required tone times, and for most you only get one timing setup definable per unit.

A real world example: An area tried to use 1321.2-1357.6 for a one dept, and a 669.9-1357.6 for another. Their Minitors would false on either due to the harmonics, and the 669.9-1357.6 would see the 1321.2-1357.6 as a long group. Both the pagers and the Centracom were in tolerance. but the tones were too close to a combination that just wouldn't work. Same applied to an agency using older M3's: they couldn't tell the diff between a 330.5-368.5 1-0-3s and a 330.5 group.

I also find that the majority of vendors use the first three or four QC-2 standard groups, so when the stars align and tropospheric ducting takes place pagers will activate from a transmitter several states away. Or on a good night from the foreign metro system 75 miles away that was licensed on a 'made-as-directed' coordination- the latter was also a harmonic audio tone falsing where 'they' picked a close-but-not-exact tone pair.
 
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Voyager

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Yes - around 100 - actually 134 or 134.4 depending whose spec you use.

And yes some of the newer Minitors will not let you program close tones in the same unit.

And I agree that when transmitters are not set up correctly, and depending on the transmitter even if they are set up correctly, some will have nasty harmonics. Some decoders are pretty crappy, too. Back in the 80's-90's a company called RELM had a paging decoder in their portables. Problem was that if it heard the first tone, it would recognize it (fine so far). If it heard the second tone, it would alert (fine so far) BUT it would alert even if that second tone were sent HOURS later (NOT fine anymore).

But, I was merely making your 'arounds' more accurate. Sorry if you felt offended by that.
 
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