CMARS Rebanded

[inigo88]

Hey guys, I've known the California Multi Agency Radio System (CMARS) rebanded quite some time ago, but didn't get a chance to examine the relevant FCC licenses and track down the new freqs until now. The state of CA made it easy on us by including both the pre and post-rebanding frequencies in each license, so it wasn't hard to track down. Every frequency that rebanded was simply shifted 15 MHz down, which also keeps things simple.

CMARS Green: 852.5375 (Rx) / 807.5375 (Tx)

CMARS Blue: 851.5375 (Rx) / 806.5375 (Tx)

CMARS Orange: 853.3875 (Rx) / 808.3875 (Tx)

CMARS Brown: Does not appear to have been rebanded. 860.125 (Rx) / 815.125 (Tx).

CMARS Purple: Not rebanded (didn't need to be). 856.2625 (Rx) / 811.2625 (Tx)

Everything else in the old CMARS thread/PDF (repeater mountaintop locations, frequency groups and tones) should be the same, with the exception of the rebanded frequencies. Thread containing the excellent CMARS pdf file is here:
C.m.a.r.s 868.5375

DB will be updated.

[LAflyer]

You sure ?

Atleast here in SoCal only last week I heard them on the regular old frequency pairs.

[inigo88]

Yes. But I guess they must be mid way through the process. Loma Prieta and Vollmer (Green and Orange) in the Bay Area have definitely been rebanded for quite some time (6 months or more), verified through monitoring. Perhaps I'll just have to post every license and we can all collaborate to figure out which repeaters have made the switch and which are still pending?

[LAflyer]

I believe it has to do with the fact that the FCC rebanding is happening in phases.

Southern California and the region adjacent to the Mexico border zone as you probably know has been continually delayed due to negotiations with Mexico.

Now that it seems US and Mexico finally reached and agreement Southern California Region 5 (counties of Imperial, Kern, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura.) can maybe finally get on with it.

Though as I said, I don't believe CMARS has been touched yet down here. I'll give them a listen this week again to see..

[ScannerDude244]

Originally Posted by inigo88

Yes. But I guess they must be mid way through the process. Loma Prieta and Vollmer (Green and Orange) in the Bay Area have definitely been rebanded for quite some time (6 months or more), verified through monitoring. Perhaps I'll just have to post every license and we can all collaborate to figure out which repeaters have made the switch and which are still pending?

Are those the only used frequencies used on Loma? I did catch CDC transport with I think DPL 712 they come once a week I hope to catch them this week.

[inigo88]

Let's try it this way. Using Kirk's pdf as a reference, I've listed below every known CMARS site (ordered by county), with pre and post rebanding frequencies and the relevant FCC license. Let's see if we can get user confirmation on whether or not they've rebanded. If you'd like to help us out and live near any of these site locations, please consider programming the pre- and post- rebanding frequencies into your scanner and letting us know what you hear in this thread.

(Note: N/A is used when no rebanding frequency exists yet on the FCC license.)

County: Amador
Site Name: Ione (Mule Creek State Prison)
License: WPFH503 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 3
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Butte
Site Name: Bloomer Mountain
License: WPBQ564 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Contra Costa
Site Name: Vollmer Peak
License: WPEH575 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Orange 2
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 868.3875
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 853.3875 - CONFIRMED REBANDED

County: Del Norte
Site Name: Point St. George
License: WPBQ561 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375

County: El Dorado
Site Name: Pilot Peak
License: WPEH576 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Orange 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.3875
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 853.3875

County: Fresno
Site Name: Joaquin Ridge
License: WPBQ555 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 3
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375

County: Imperial
Site Name: Black Mountain
License: WPBQ543 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(Border Region: Not yet rebanded)

County: Lassen
Site Name: Peavine Ridge
License: ???
Channel Name/Group: Purple 1
Output Frequency: 856.2625
(Rebanding not applicable to this channel)

County: Lassen
Site Name: Shaffer Mountain
License: WPBQ557 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Kern
Site Name: Breckenridge Mountain
License: WPBQ547 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Kern
Site Name: Oak Peak
License: WPBQ549 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375

County: Madera
Site Name: Deadwood Peak
License: WPHX759 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 2
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Mariposa
Site Name: Mt Bullion
License: WPEH572 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Orange 3
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.3875
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 853.3875

County: Monterey
Site Name: Calandra Lookout
License: WPBQ565 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Orange 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.3875
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 853.3875

County: Monterey
Site Name: Fremont Peak
License: WPBQ567 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Orange
Site Name: Santiago Peak
License: WPBQ552 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 2
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(Doesn't appear to have rebanded, per FCC license)

County: Riverside
Site Name: Black Rock
License: KNNR249 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 3
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(Doesn't appear to have rebanded, per FCC license)

County: Riverside
Site Name: Cactus City
License: WPBQ545 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(Doesn't appear to have rebanded, per FCC license)

County: Riverside
Site Name: Chuckwalla Mountain
License: WPBQ544 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Brown 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 860.125
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(Doesn't appear to have rebanded, per FCC license. No rebanding frequency planned yet.)

County: Sacramento
Site Name: Sacto Resources Building (Natural Resources Agency)
License: WPBQ558 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: San Bernardino
Site Name: Rodman Mountain
License: WPBQ550 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375
(Border region: Likely not yet rebanded.)

County: San Diego
Site Name: Lyons Peak
License: WPEJ472 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(Border Region: Not yet rebanded.)

County: San Diego
Site Name: Mount Soledad
License: WPBQ541 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Brown 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 860.125
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(No rebanding frequency planned yet.)

County: San Luis Obispo
Site Name: Mount Lowe
License: WPBQ548 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375

County: Santa Barbara
Site Name: Santa Ynez Peak
License: WPBQ551 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 2
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Santa Clara
Site Name: Loma Prieta
License: WPBQ563 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 2
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375 - CONFIRMED REBANDED

County: Siskiyou
Site Name: Antelope Peak
License: WPBQ553 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375

County: Solano
Site Name: Mount Vaca
License: WPEH573 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375 - CONFIRMED REBANDED

County: Sonoma
Site Name: Sonoma Mountain
License: WPEH574 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Blue 2
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 866.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 851.5375

County: Tehama
Site Name: Tuscan Butte
License: WPBQ560 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): 852.5375

County: Tuolumne
Site Name: Jamestown
License: WPEI687 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Purple 1
Output Frequency: 856.2625
(Rebanding not applicable to this channel)

County: Ventura
Site Name: South Mountain
License: WPBQ542 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
Channel Name/Group: Green 1
Output Frequency (Before Rebanding): 867.5375
Ouput Frequency (After Rebanding): N/A
(Not yet rebanded, per FCC license.)

[inigo88]

In the list above, the Channel Name/Group refers to the frequency (color) and tone squelch group. Each CMARS user agency is assigned their own PL/DPL tone, which is broken into three groups. The groups and system users are listed below (from Kirk's PDF):

System Users                                      Group 1 Group 2 Group 3
Air Resources Board                                77.0 100.0 103.5
California Conservation Corps (CCC)                85.4 88.5 91.5
California Department of Corrections (CDC)         156.7 156.7 156.7
California Department of Corrections (CDC)         241.8 250.3
California Department of Forestry (CDF)            67.0 71.9 74.4
California State Universities                      210.7 218.1 225.7
California Youth Authority                         123.0 146.2 136.5
Department of Mental Health                        107.2 114.8 118.8
Department of General Service (Telecommunications) 162.2 186.2 151.4
Department of Parks and Recreation (DPR)           127.3 167.9 173.8
Department of Conservation                         179.9 141.3 192.8
Department of the State Architect (DSA)                        D023
Emergency (All Units, Disaster Mutual Aid)         110.9 110.9 110.9
Employment Development Department (EDD)                        D031
Unassigned                                         94.8 79.7 82.5
Unassigned                                         233.6 131.8 203.5

I also saw quite a few additional locations in the FCC licenses which aren't on Kirk's PDF. They are primarily located at California State Prisons (CDC is the main CMARS user), so I think most of the mountain top sites are covered.

[inigo88]

Originally Posted by LAflyer

I believe it has to do with the fact that the FCC rebanding is happening in phases.

Southern California and the region adjacent to the Mexico border zone as you probably know has been continually delayed due to negotiations with Mexico.

Now that it seems US and Mexico finally reached and agreement Southern California Region 5 (counties of Imperial, Kern, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura.) can maybe finally get on with it.

Though as I said, I don't believe CMARS has been touched yet down here. I'll give them a listen this week again to see..

Looks like the licenses agree. Nothing has been touched in socal as far north as Ventura county. Rodman Mountain in San Bernardino county and Santa Ynez Peak in Santa Barbara county seem to be the furthest south the FCC licenses reflect the updated rebanded frequencies.

Originally Posted by ScannerDude244

Are those the only used frequencies used on Loma? I did catch CDC transport with I think DPL 712 they come once a week I hope to catch them this week.

As far as I know Green 2 (Rebanded) is the only CMARS repeater on Loma. CDC is traditionally 156.7 PL, so if you're hearing them on 712 DPL that would be a change. CALSTAR 1 and 2 would also periodically use the CDF group 2 tone (71.9 PL) to reach Felton ECC through Loma.

[inigo88]

From looking through the FCC licenses, here are some potential CMARS sites that haven't been documented yet. Anyone want to give a listen?

Pine Hill (El Dorado County): Green (not rebanded)
WPBQ562 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Mt Tamalpais - West Peak: Green (not rebanded)
Mill Valley, CA
WPBQ568 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
(Never heard despite years of listening - may be offline)

Laughlin Ridge (Mendocino County): Green
Willits, CA
WPBQ554 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Pac-West Telecomm Inc. Tower (San Joaquin County): Blue (rebanded)
Stockton, CA
WPPV239 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details
This is a weird one! They have a CMARS Blue repeater on a private LMR company's tower.

Horse Mountain (Humboldt County): Blue (not rebanded)
Willow Creek, CA
WPBQ556 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Silver Peak (Inyo County): Blue (not rebanded)
Bishop, CA
WPBQ559 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Government Peak (Kern County): Blue (not rebanded)
Randsburg, CA
WPBQ546 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Sierra Peak (Orange County): Blue (not rebanded)
Silverado, CA
WPLU565 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Flash II Mountain (San Bernardino County): Blue (not rebanded)
Barstow, CA
WQJC512 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Boucher Hill (San Diego County): Brown
WPBQ540 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Sacramento Natural Resources Building (Sacramento County): Purple
WNXW514 (CALIFORNIA, STATE OF) FCC Callsign Details

Whew, that's all I've been able to find. Also lots of CMARS base stations scattered around all the CDCR facilities.

[LAflyer]

From my location I get Santiago and can confirm its still 867.5375.

Regarding the Sierra Peak - 866.5375 - WPLU565 - I'm almost 100% sure its used by Cal State University Fullerton Police for their El Toro campus - PL 114.8. Its in the Db as such.

[inigo88]

Originally Posted by LAflyer

From my location I get Santiago and can confirm its still 867.5375.

Regarding the Sierra Peak - 866.5375 - WPLU565 - I'm almost 100% sure its used by Cal State University Fullerton Police for their El Toro campus - PL 114.8. Its in the Db as such.

Makes sense. I suspect some of the original CMARS repeaters could have been re-appropriated for other uses over the years (especially if two covered the same area). Or perhaps the state DGS telecom people simply needed to find CSU Fullerton a frequency and grabbed a CMARS Blue license out of the statewide pool of available frequencies.

I also noticed Chino Hills State Park and Perris State Recreation Area have licensed base stations on CMARS. Ever hear them on Santiago?

[kma371]

I'll monitor/record these from my bay area remote for a day or so and see what I get, but I think I might have given you one of those arleady, don't remember which.

[mmckenna]

California is split into two planning regions. Northern California is Region 6, and Southern California is Region 5.
The dividing line is South of Monterey, Kings, Tulare and Inyo counties. Those 4 county lines form a nice straight line running west to east.
Region 5 rebanding was held up waiting on the agreements to be signed with Mexico, so those regions along the border 5, 3, 29, 50 and 53 are just now starting their rebanding.
Most 800MHz users affected by rebanding in Northern California have completed their changes and Nextel has begun moving their services and freeing up the old licenses.
Moving all frequencies 15 MHz down is the normal procedure.

This crap has been going on since 2004 and there are probably at least a few more years to go before everything is done. While Sprint/Nextel has been picking up the bill for everything, the amount of man hours wasted is troubling. My location rebanded a few years ago, and because we have sites on both sides of the region 6 and region 5 dividing line, we have a lot of work left to do. Nextel had to put up 5 billion to fund this rebanding, and I'm sure it's going to cost more. Meantime, Sprint and Nextel have decided to stop using IDEN on 800MHz and switch to CDMA.

Should be interesting to see this all work out. I'm sure it will all be done, but it's been a long process.

[ScannerDude244]

I may pick up a cheap 800mhz radio on ebay just monitor these and others. Do you know if cal trans is also rebanding?

[LAflyer]

Originally Posted by inigo88

I also noticed Chino Hills State Park and Perris State Recreation Area have licensed base stations on CMARS. Ever hear them on Santiago?

Have not paid that close attention.
I know I see multiple PLs on Santiago but never have given it very close scrutiny. The most frequent user are the corrections transport folks with PL 156.7.

[K6CDO]

CMARS by design is a multiple tone system. 156.7 Hz is a common tone, but various users have different tones.

[mmckenna]

Originally Posted by ScannerDude244

I may pick up a cheap 800mhz radio on ebay just monitor these and others. Do you know if cal trans is also rebanding?

Yes, CalTrans is/has rebanded their 800MHz frequencies.

[WayneH]

Originally Posted by inigo88

Mt Tamalpais - West Peak: Green (not rebanded)
Mill Valley, CA
(Never heard despite years of listening - may be offline)

It's not there anymore.

This is a weird one! They have a CMARS Blue repeater on a private LMR company's tower.

That's not uncommon. I've seen a few sites in the Bay Area where they colo.

[inigo88]

I found a CalEMA document which mentioned that CMARS is made up of 35 repeaters covering the major transportation corridors throughout the state. CDCR transport division is the biggest user and provides 87% of the funding. 32 of those sites are confirmed, so I suspect a lot of the extra licenses I found are offline (like Mt Tam West Peak). That leaves three potential sites out of the 11 extra licenses I found, and it's actually only 10 since Sacto Resources Building is already a confirmed site.

Pine Hill probably doesn't exist anymore, because it covers the same area as Pilot Peak.
Mt Tam West Peak is gone.
Sierra Peak was likely leased to CSU Fullerton for their PD dispatch channel.
Flash II is more or less covered by Rodman (although there's some terrain in the way).

I suspect Horse Mountain (Humboldt County) and Laughlin Ridge (Mendocino County) probably still exist, because they are the likely candidates to cover the Hwy 101 corridor between Sonoma and Del Norte counties.

Surprisingly that Pac-West LMR tower in northern Stockton has the rebanded Blue frequency in the license, so it's almost certainly still active.

Originally Posted by WayneH

That's not uncommon. I've seen a few sites in the Bay Area where they colo.

I guess what surprised me about it was looking at google street view at that address. I'm used to public safety and business co-locating at privately owned sites, but this tower in Stockton is literally on the roof of the radio shop. I hadn't seen that before.

[kma371]

Originally Posted by inigo88

I guess what surprised me about it was looking at google street view at that address. I'm used to public safety and business co-locating at privately owned sites, but this tower in Stockton is literally on the roof of the radio shop. I hadn't seen that before.

Yeah that's a VERY large tower. You can see it from I-5. Its right across the street from a strip club too. Don't ask me how I know that