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Old 02-07-2017, 6:46 AM
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Default Project25 en Puerto Rico

Saludos!

Quisiera saber si alguien ha podido hacer funcionar lo que aparece en la base de datos de RR, específicamente el P25 de la Policia de Puerto Rico. He programado ya varios scanners con esa información y parece no funcionar o faltarle algo.

Programé recientemente un HomePatrol de Uniden y lo tuve que hacer "manual", creando un "system" P25 One Frequency y entrando manualmnte las frecuencias que aparecen en la pagina de la FCC. Funciona en parte, pero la realidad es que se supone que solamente se monitoree el "control channel", y el "control channel" diga hacia donde va a "brincar".
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Old 02-07-2017, 7:54 AM
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One Frequency P25 is generally used by folks to Read the Radio ID's of those transmitting on a Conventional P25 Channel.

Is the Agency you are attempting to monitor a Trunked System or a Conventional System ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Saludos!

Quisiera saber si alguien ha podido hacer funcionar lo que aparece en la base de datos de RR, específicamente el P25 de la Policia de Puerto Rico. He programado ya varios scanners con esa información y parece no funcionar o faltarle algo.

Programé recientemente un HomePatrol de Uniden y lo tuve que hacer "manual", creando un "system" P25 One Frequency y entrando manualmnte las frecuencias que aparecen en la pagina de la FCC. Funciona en parte, pero la realidad es que se supone que solamente se monitoree el "control channel", y el "control channel" diga hacia donde va a "brincar".
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:16 AM
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Hi!

Thanks for the reply!

To be honest, I don't know which type it is, but I've heard people call it a trunk system. The Uniden radios kind of mix these terms...on the Sentinel software for the bcd436hp, when creating a new system, it gives me the options P25 Trunk, P25 X2-TDMA and P25 One Freq. On the HomePatrol software, the P25 Trunk does not exist, but there's a P25 Standard.

Last night I created a new system on the HomePatrol, P25 Standard, with a few frequencies that show a constant "DAT" at the bottom of the screen/LCD on a bcd436hp. Then I used the Analyze option, and then to the "Current Activity" option, and saw two different "light blue" frequencies show up. I think those are control channels, and looking at the database from RR, I can see these same frequencies as red, so I'm pretty sure these are control channels, but using the RR data, nothing is heard when scanning. I'm still learning about all this, but it feels like a puzzle and I love solving puzzles!
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:31 AM
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Which system (scroll the bottom of the page) are you trying to listen to.
Puerto Rico Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi!

Thanks for the reply!

To be honest, I don't know which type it is, but I've heard people call it a trunk system. The Uniden radios kind of mix these terms...on the Sentinel software for the bcd436hp, when creating a new system, it gives me the options P25 Trunk, P25 X2-TDMA and P25 One Freq. On the HomePatrol software, the P25 Trunk does not exist, but there's a P25 Standard.

Last night I created a new system on the HomePatrol, P25 Standard, with a few frequencies that show a constant "DAT" at the bottom of the screen/LCD on a bcd436hp. Then I used the Analyze option, and then to the "Current Activity" option, and saw two different "light blue" frequencies show up. I think those are control channels, and looking at the database from RR, I can see these same frequencies as red, so I'm pretty sure these are control channels, but using the RR data, nothing is heard when scanning. I'm still learning about all this, but it feels like a puzzle and I love solving puzzles!
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:23 AM
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Hi again!

It'll be the last one, called "Policía de Puerto Rico (PRPD) - Red de Radio Interoperabilidad".

When I analyze this system with the HomePatrol, I get no activity and no conversations when scanning/searching, but I can hear conversations on some of the frequencies used by it, specifically on the "Morovis" site, if I listen to the frequency directly, or by using a "Custom Search" on the bcd436hp, so I know these are not encrypted.
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Old 02-07-2017, 1:26 PM
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Some of the sites only show a CC no Voice channels, looks like you might need to do some sleuthing and determine some of the missing pieces. ie: Sites 3-7 and 9-15

Can you hear Sites 1, 2, 3 or 20 ??
I would program those as a P25 TRS not Single Frequency, see what you hear.

And
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi again!

It'll be the last one, called "Policía de Puerto Rico (PRPD) - Red de Radio Interoperabilidad".

When I analyze this system with the HomePatrol, I get no activity and no conversations when scanning/searching, but I can hear conversations on some of the frequencies used by it, specifically on the "Morovis" site, if I listen to the frequency directly, or by using a "Custom Search" on the bcd436hp, so I know these are not encrypted.
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Old 02-08-2017, 6:56 AM
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Hi again!

I tested Site 1, 2,3 and 20, and I cannot heard anything...

I tried something different...I created a new P25 trunk system, with 7 Sites, each Site with only one frequency; each of the frequencies show the "DAT" letters on the bcd436hp screen. I then opened the system in the HomePatrol Analyzer and tested the site with the frequency 851.3000 and I got this:

Blue 851.3062 TGID: SYS:0065h Unit ID: SITE 9-009
White 851.8062
White 852.2687
White 852.7562

I'm guessing the blue is the Control Channel, while the whites are voice channels. The whites changed to green from time to time, no idea what the green color means, but it sure means there's activity there! The blue one also confirms that it is in fact Site 9, since that same frequency is marked in red (control channel) as the Site 9 at the RR database. So the question is, should I add these frequencies (whites and blue, including the "DAT" frequency 851.3000) to the Site 9? Just in case I added them, but I still cannot hear anything in scanning mode....
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Old 02-08-2017, 8:38 AM
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Looks like you found (White / Green) the missing Voice Channels for Site-9
Go ahead and make a submission at PolicÃ*a de Puerto Rico (PRPD) - Red de Radio Interoperabilidad Trunking System, Various, Puerto Rico - Scanner Frequencies
to get them updated. It could be the TG's are ENC, and yes the Blue is the Current/Active Control Channel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi again!

I tested Site 1, 2,3 and 20, and I cannot heard anything...

I tried something different...I created a new P25 trunk system, with 7 Sites, each Site with only one frequency; each of the frequencies show the "DAT" letters on the bcd436hp screen. I then opened the system in the HomePatrol Analyzer and tested the site with the frequency 851.3000 and I got this:

Blue 851.3062 TGID: SYS:0065h Unit ID: SITE 9-009
White 851.8062
White 852.2687
White 852.7562

I'm guessing the blue is the Control Channel, while the whites are voice channels. The whites changed to green from time to time, no idea what the green color means, but it sure means there's activity there! The blue one also confirms that it is in fact Site 9, since that same frequency is marked in red (control channel) as the Site 9 at the RR database. So the question is, should I add these frequencies (whites and blue, including the "DAT" frequency 851.3000) to the Site 9? Just in case I added them, but I still cannot hear anything in scanning mode....
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:57 AM
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Hi again!

I did find a few TGs, I just didn't write them in the last reply. So my guess is that I should continue to analyze other "DAT" frequencies (as I've come to name them, lol), to find other Sites in the system, with the corresponding frequencies, right?

Should I add the "DAT" frequency as well to the Site?

I still don't understand why I can see activity on the Site, but cannot hear any conversation at all....

According to the "Easier to read online manual":

Current Activity - As channel grants are issued on new frequencies, the table will populate with the frequencies in use in the system. Any active IDs and Unit IDs will show for each frequency.
The blue frequency is the control channel. White IDs are programmed IDs. Green IDs are unknown (not programmed). Orange IDs are patched. Yellow IDs are I-Calls (private IDs). Red IDs are encrypted (cannot be determined for some system types).

So far I've not seen red, so no encryption.
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Old 02-08-2017, 1:00 PM
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Not being familiar with the actual radio, I can't help much more, but begin to wonder if it's not in the proper SEARCH / Scan mode, due to the RR DB not having any TG's populated.

As for the various Voice channels, log em, for each Zone/Site and make a submission it will help out other folks and will begin to populate the DB

That is good then for the ENC TG's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi again!

I did find a few TGs, I just didn't write them in the last reply. So my guess is that I should continue to analyze other "DAT" frequencies (as I've come to name them, lol), to find other Sites in the system, with the corresponding frequencies, right?

Should I add the "DAT" frequency as well to the Site?

I still don't understand why I can see activity on the Site, but cannot hear any conversation at all....

According to the "Easier to read online manual":

Current Activity - As channel grants are issued on new frequencies, the table will populate with the frequencies in use in the system. Any active IDs and Unit IDs will show for each frequency.
The blue frequency is the control channel. White IDs are programmed IDs. Green IDs are unknown (not programmed). Orange IDs are patched. Yellow IDs are I-Calls (private IDs). Red IDs are encrypted (cannot be determined for some system types).

So far I've not seen red, so no encryption.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:36 AM
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Hi!

One curious thing I found...

Remember when I said that frequency 851.8062 was a white/voice channel? Well, I decided to monitor that frequency in the quick search option of the BCD436HP, while also monitoring activity in the HP2. Whenever there was activity in the 851.8062 freq. in the HP2, there was only sound in the BCD436HP, almost the same "engine sound " of a trunking system. There was no voice at all. I continued searching on the 436HP and found that whenever there was activity in the 851.8062 in the HP2, voice can be heard in the frequency 851.8000.

So what's the relationship between 851.3000 (the "DAT" frequency), the 851.8062 ("white/voice") frequency and the 851.8000 (actual voice)?

The same thing happened with the other "white/voice" frequency of 851.2687; whenever there was activity in the HP2, actual voice can be heard on the 436HP at frequency 851.2625...
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:25 PM
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851.3000 is the Control/Switcher - runs the network
851.8000 / 851.80625 - you might be close to the site and getting bleed-over between the two channels ? What does the FCC show for the license ? 8000 or 80625 ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi!

One curious thing I found...

Remember when I said that frequency 851.8062 was a white/voice channel? Well, I decided to monitor that frequency in the quick search option of the BCD436HP, while also monitoring activity in the HP2. Whenever there was activity in the 851.8062 freq. in the HP2, there was only sound in the BCD436HP, almost the same "engine sound " of a trunking system. There was no voice at all. I continued searching on the 436HP and found that whenever there was activity in the 851.8062 in the HP2, voice can be heard in the frequency 851.8000.

So what's the relationship between 851.3000 (the "DAT" frequency), the 851.8062 ("white/voice") frequency and the 851.8000 (actual voice)?

The same thing happened with the other "white/voice" frequency of 851.2687; whenever there was activity in the HP2, actual voice can be heard on the 436HP at frequency 851.2625...
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:53 PM
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Hi!

I never saw frequencies ending in "62" over at the FCC website. And now that I think about it, the blue frequency is 851.3062, while the "DAT" frequency is 851.3000, so there's always a .0062 difference between all of them. Why would the HP2 then give me 851.3062 as the control channel, when actually it is 851.3000?....

As for the location, I have no idea...I saw the map here at the RR page, and as far as I know, I don't live near a site. Maybe the whole RR data entry is wrong....
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Old 02-09-2017, 1:03 PM
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Some Scanners only display out to the 4th digit after the decimal point, however 851.3062 is actually 851.30625

3.0625 is 3.0000 are only 6.25 khz away, so close that the radio can't handle it.
Even in the days of 12.5 Khz, if you are close to the Site, you will get interference.

What is your Lat/Lon, I might (with the snow today) with some time see what the FCC info for the sites is, and see what you are CLOSE to....

As for the DB, some is FCC info, but until sites get known reported, it's all based on user info and as we saw, some sites only had the CC and no voice... so very little user reports and still NO Talk-groups identified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi!

I never saw frequencies ending in "62" over at the FCC website. And now that I think about it, the blue frequency is 851.3062, while the "DAT" frequency is 851.3000, so there's always a .0062 difference between all of them. Why would the HP2 then give me 851.3062 as the control channel, when actually it is 851.3000?....

As for the location, I have no idea...I saw the map here at the RR page, and as far as I know, I don't live near a site. Maybe the whole RR data entry is wrong....
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Old 02-11-2017, 7:06 AM
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Hi again!

So, I made a few tests....

First thing I did was to subtract the 6.25khz from the frequencies I found, so for example, 851.3062, I "converted" it to 851.3000, for 851.7562 is now 851.7500, and so on.

I created two new systems, one P25 Conventional/One Frequency, and the other one a P25 Standard/Trunk. I copied the "converted" frequencies to both systems, and into both scanners, the BCD436HP and the HomePatrol 2. I put the BCD436HP ID Searching the P25 Conventional/One Frequency and the HomePatrol 2 in ID Searching the P25 Standard/Trunk. Guess what?.....I can hear conversations from the police on the BCD436HP (P25 Conventional/One Frequency system), but not on the HomePatrol 2 (P25 Standard/Trunk). As the BCD436HP starts receiving voice, I can see that the HomePatrol 2 stops at the exact same Site/Frequency/TG, and as soon as the voice/audio is gone on the 436HP, the HP2 resumes the scanning, but no audio is ever heard. If I do the same thing in reverse, the 436HP in ID Searching the P25 Conventional and the HP2 ID Searching the Trunk, then audio is heard on the HP2 but not on the 436HP. Maybe is a trunking setting somewhere? Maybe this is more of a question for the Uniden forums? Do I have the bad luck of actually having both scanners with problems? I bought them both new-in-box from Amazon, not used.

I have confirmed that it is in fact a trunking system. The call sign for the system is WQEY620.

The last thing that I'm thinking...maybe the control channel is actually sending the wrong frequency. Maybe it is sending 851.7562 instead of 851.7500, or maybe the scanners need some adjusting?
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:36 AM
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Not being familliar with those two models, I can't help

Shame, some locals have not chimed in to help you more..

Almost sounds like your radio is reporting 6.25 off, doubt it's the TRS itself, as those freqs are the ones licenses (being - 6.25 khz)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi again!

So, I made a few tests....

First thing I did was to subtract the 6.25khz from the frequencies I found, so for example, 851.3062, I "converted" it to 851.3000, for 851.7562 is now 851.7500, and so on.

I created two new systems, one P25 Conventional/One Frequency, and the other one a P25 Standard/Trunk. I copied the "converted" frequencies to both systems, and into both scanners, the BCD436HP and the HomePatrol 2. I put the BCD436HP ID Searching the P25 Conventional/One Frequency and the HomePatrol 2 in ID Searching the P25 Standard/Trunk. Guess what?.....I can hear conversations from the police on the BCD436HP (P25 Conventional/One Frequency system), but not on the HomePatrol 2 (P25 Standard/Trunk). As the BCD436HP starts receiving voice, I can see that the HomePatrol 2 stops at the exact same Site/Frequency/TG, and as soon as the voice/audio is gone on the 436HP, the HP2 resumes the scanning, but no audio is ever heard. If I do the same thing in reverse, the 436HP in ID Searching the P25 Conventional and the HP2 ID Searching the Trunk, then audio is heard on the HP2 but not on the 436HP. Maybe is a trunking setting somewhere? Maybe this is more of a question for the Uniden forums? Do I have the bad luck of actually having both scanners with problems? I bought them both new-in-box from Amazon, not used.

I have confirmed that it is in fact a trunking system. The call sign for the system is WQEY620.

The last thing that I'm thinking...maybe the control channel is actually sending the wrong frequency. Maybe it is sending 851.7562 instead of 851.7500, or maybe the scanners need some adjusting?
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Old 02-11-2017, 1:09 PM
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I was there this past summer working on a different radio system and had the opportunity to meet with the PRPD radio managers. I was told this system is supposed to be fully encrypted. I programmed my 436 with the licensed frequencies and was able to track the system in San Juan but never heard a voice. I was able to see activity but definitely encrypted.
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Old 02-11-2017, 1:37 PM
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Hi!

Yeah, I was told the same thing, that it is encrypted, but then, why am I hearing audio and conversations when I program the scanner as a P25 One Frequency? On the HP2, it is supposed to show encrypted frequencies as red, but so far I have not seen red frequencies either. There's definitely something wrong somewhere....Maybe I need a scanner other than a Uniden, perhaps a Whistler?
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Old 02-11-2017, 1:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astialis View Post
Hi!

Yeah, I was told the same thing, that it is encrypted, but then, why am I hearing audio and conversations when I program the scanner as a P25 One Frequency? On the HP2, it is supposed to show encrypted frequencies as red, but so far I have not seen red frequencies either. There's definitely something wrong somewhere....Maybe I need a scanner other than a Uniden, perhaps a Whistler?
Maybe the audio you're hearing on the P25 One Frequency is the same frequency but not from the same system. Maybe it's coming from an older system? I say that because we have a municipality in south Florida that recently switched from Moto type II to P25. During the transition, they had both systems active at the same time while and both systems used the the same frequencies except for the control channels if I remember correctly. So the same frequency was being used in analog on the type II as well as on P25. Makes for a confusing situation if trying to decipher. Just a thought.

Last edited by sflmonitor; 02-11-2017 at 1:52 PM..
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Old 02-11-2017, 2:51 PM
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Hi!

Yeah, the local police is still transitioning from the old analog system to this P25, but the old system was at 154.800 Mhz. In fact, when listening the 154.800 frequency, you can sometimes hear digital distorted audio along with normal audio. The strange thing is, they seem to understand each other, like for example, the distorted digital audio is heard, and then they would say in "Copy that, 10-4" in the analog audio. Could it be that maybe the police did this on purpose so that no one can follow them? But then again, their radios might not work correctly, right? Can their radios be programmed with specific channels? Maybe because of the transitioning, they haven't yet programmed the control channels as they should? I don't know, just throwing ideas/comments....
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