Maco comet 6 element beam temporary setup help

[darticus]

MACO COMET 6 ELEMENT BEAM TEMPORARY SETUP HELP
Is there an easy way to set up and try a beam. TOOO BE TO TEST on a house. Is it possible to mount on a mast in the yard or NO GOOD. Thanks Ron

 

[JayMojave]

Hello Ron: Yeah this is do-able, but its not like falling off a log easy.

If the Beam can be put on a 20 or better 30 foot mast that would be temporarily stood up against the house this would be a good start. But of course better would be on a crank up tower away from all the near by objects. I would suggest 2 or 1 1/2 inch galvanized pipe as the mast, as the Maco 6 Element Beam will have a Boom length of approx. 30 feet, not a small antenna.

Having a Omni antenna away from the beam is a good call for comparison measurements.

The beam should have good rejection about 100 to 110 degrees off the front, You will not would find a hole lot of adjustment of SWR with the Gamma Match. Using the Beams rejection both off the sides and back is a great help allowing you reject strong stations while listening in to other directions. It will take time to get the feel of it.

Good luck

Jay in the Mojave

 

[darticus]

When it gets here I'll build it and see if its doable on a temporary mount. I ask tons of question then. Thanks Ron

 

[JayMojave]

Hello Ron: Ok good deal, I will add a little bit more facts and suggested advice, if I may.

Having a Tilt Over and Crank up Tower is the way to fly, this from many years of using them. Having to adjust the antenna for SWR, or what ever, Using a good Rotator that will handle the wind load is also a good call, as you will want to turn the beam quit a bit at times. A Hy-Gain Ham 4, or Tailtwister T2 Rotor will work, not cheap.

Guy wires are also important, a local ham up the street (um dirt road) had two "Free Standing Towers" at 65 feet tall. Many years of use showed cracks in the Aluminum Pipe is was made from. So Nylon Rope Guide Wires were installed to take the stress off the tower. Guy Wires are real cheap compared to losing the tower over some neighbors car.

Using the good coax like LMR400 of LMR600 is also a good call. Pounding in the 8 Ft ground Rods is good for lightening protection. Coiling the Coax at the base of the tower after having it connected to the ground rods will help reduce the lightening problem. And Lightening Arc Protectors on the coax mounted to a ground rod before it enters the house will also help.

Its far more easier and cheaper do put up all the good stuff the first time around.

Jay in the Mojave

 

[darticus]

I think towers cost alot so I think thats out. Maybe I can find one used. Let see next week when it gets here. Ron

 

[JayMojave]

Hello Ron: Yeah that's a good call, finding a used one.

I have several towers not all installed up and running tho. And none of them were bought new.
I am sure if you nose around and ask the local ham club you find one or two. Even guys on the air always seem to know whos selling stuff.

Back in the 1960's and 70's there were quit a few of the smaller light weight towers that were made for a smaller and lighter type TV and FM band Antennas. I would suggest steering away from these lighter weight towers, as experience shows us they won't handle a large beam. As they twist and Rock n Roll back and forth in the wind, meaning at some time they come apart. Its important to know the difference in the light weight towers, and the ones that can handle the load.

I use to go knock on the doors of the guys who had towers and get the 50 cent tour and their advice. There's also a book out by the ARRL on Towers and such. Some locations will require a permit and some don't, be advised.

Good luck, and again its always cheaper and easier to buy the good stuff once. Buy this I mean I have a Tilt Over Tower, that is also a Crank up Tower and it has lowered and raised so many times I had to buy a real world hand winch (American Made) that was good for 3000 LBs, I went thu 3 of the cheap Harbor Freight hand winches made in China.

Jay in the Mojave

Jay in the Mojave

 

[RadioFreeq]

Often, these kinds of beams can be assembled and tested on a 20ft push-up pole with a large step ladder useful for adjustment.

 

[JayMojave]

Yo Ron: If the Beam is going to be vertical then the distance to the ground isn't to critical, but if its Horz, then the higher the less effect the ground will play on the SWR.

Jay in the Mojave

 

[darticus]

I don't know much about beams but this is a Maco Comet 6 Element and it won't get here until next week. Thats a Bipolar like me! What's this mean? Thanks Ron

Yo Ron: If the Beam is going to be vertical then the distance to the ground isn't to critical, but if its Horz, then the higher the less effect the ground will play on the SWR.

Jay in the Mojave

 

[N8DRC]

Thats a Bipolar like me! What's this mean?

dual polarity V/H. I had a Maco M104C a while ago and tested it up about 15 feet on a mast to adjust the SWR and worked fine. I later had it mounted on a 30 foot tower.

 

[JayMojave]

Hello Ron: The Yagi Beam Antennas when mounted in the Vertical Polarization meaning the beams elements are mounted up and down, just like say a A99 Antenna would be installed, will have little effect from the ground reflections causing a change in the SWR.

Were the yagi beams elements are Horizontal then there will be some ground reflections. So tuning the yagi beam say at ten feet and then raising it to 30 feet you will see a difference in SWR.

Some say you can have the yagi beam resting on the reflector pointing straight up and adjust the tuning (Gamma Match) that way. I have never tried that but some day will and see what happens, I say its worth a try. This hopefully having little ground effect on the yagi beam while tuning it.

One thing I have noticed is, the better the match the less the ground effect has on the yagi beam SWR.

Another suggestion if I may. When assembling the MACO 6 Element Yagi Beam, have some solvent and clean rags to whip off the elements were they connect to each other, as some times in the manufacturing process the elements may have a oil residue left over from being cut. Causing a NO connection between the elements. This I have seen on a few antennas, may have not been Maco tho.

I modified a Maco 5 Element Beam Antenna, removing the Gamma Match tuning assembly and installing a Balanced Hairpin Matching Assembly, (long story) allowing somewhat better performance, and better tuning to dead nutz flat SWR. The owner of the antenna had sprayed oil all over the beam for taking it apart, I had a terrible time getting all the oil out there so the elements would make a good contact and work. Not Maco's fault. The silver lining was that the beam was mounted on a tilt over crank up tower, allowing the beam to be very easily adjusted and tested.

The rewards of a up and running beam are well worth the time and money. The greatest thing I like about a beam is the rejection, allowing me to reject stations from the eastern states to hear the weaker stations out of the south pacific.

Hope this helps.

 

[darticus]

I was going to mount it up and down like 99a. It has Two coax connections. Will know more when it gets here. I will post picks. I di buy it used of hope its good. Thanks for all your help. Ron

Hello Ron: The Yagi Beam Antennas when mounted in the Vertical Polarization meaning the beams elements are mounted up and down, just like say a A99 Antenna would be installed, will have little effect from the ground reflections causing a change in the SWR.

Were the yagi beams elements are Horizontal then there will be some ground reflections. So tuning the yagi beam say at ten feet and then raising it to 30 feet you will see a difference in SWR.

Some say you can have the yagi beam resting on the reflector pointing straight up and adjust the tuning (Gamma Match) that way. I have never tried that but some day will and see what happens, I say its worth a try. This hopefully having little ground effect on the yagi beam while tuning it.

One thing I have noticed is, the better the match the less the ground effect has on the yagi beam SWR.

Another suggestion if I may. When assembling the MACO 6 Element Yagi Beam, have some solvent and clean rags to whip off the elements were they connect to each other, as some times in the manufacturing process the elements may have a oil residue left over from being cut. Causing a NO connection between the elements. This I have seen on a few antennas, may have not been Maco tho.

I modified a Maco 5 Element Beam Antenna, removing the Gamma Match tuning assembly and installing a Balanced Hairpin Matching Assembly, (long story) allowing somewhat better performance, and better tuning to dead nutz flat SWR. The owner of the antenna had sprayed oil all over the beam for taking it apart, I had a terrible time getting all the oil out there so the elements would make a good contact and work. Not Maco's fault. The silver lining was that the beam was mounted on a tilt over crank up tower, allowing the beam to be very easily adjusted and tested.

The rewards of a up and running beam are well worth the time and money. The greatest thing I like about a beam is the rejection, allowing me to reject stations from the eastern states to hear the weaker stations out of the south pacific.

Hope this helps.

 

[JayMojave]

Hello Ron: Ok I mis-understood the term 6 element Beam Antenna. That's what happens when you don't include photos, use big celable words, and type fast for us slower types!

This is what is called a 3 element cross beam antenna, at least to me. The CB world some times calls them a 6 element beam to make it sound better, I guess. Ok so this antenna is NOT on a 30 foot boom as a "6" element in a row beam antenna would be. And will be much easier to temporarily move around.

Having both Vert and Horz polarities, is a good thing as this will allow you receive and transmit in either polarity, you will get a feel for it as local stations that will work well in the Vert, and you will be able to drop them 20 to 30 dB when switching to Horz. You will need a good coax switch that will allow you the ability to switch from Vert to Horz, to another antenna say like a another vertical antenna, and then a dummy load. This will require a 4 position coax switch. But well worth it all.

Let us know how make out with it.

Jay in the Mojave

 

[KC4RAF]

+1 with Jay.

That is a 3 element V/H beam. Six element is a monster.
I assume (bad word) that you were just posting a pic of a beam.
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mIzanoTrdpFO92KFbh1wSYw.jpg

 

[darticus]

OK all, the used beam has arrived. I have started to put the antenna together but the person I purchased it from didn't send the 14 gauge wire for the reflector. Can I get wire locally in a Radio Shack to work? I do need 40 feet. Maco wants 25 dollars for the wire. I guess it must be 14 GA copper stranded wire as the parts list indicates. Does anyone know how to install this as the say its very important that its 9 feet 6 inches between fiberglass rods. They mention to stretch the wire. Can this be heavier than 14 ga and can it be rubber coated or does it have to be bare? I am also missing some end caps for some of the elements. Thanks Ron

 

[KC4RAF]

On the PDL Quad I have, I used

14 gauge solid wire, (I'm a retired electrician, so had access to what I needed). I took #14 THHN and stripped off the insulation and did a little stretch using my vise and lineman's pliers. All it takes is just enough pull to get any minor kinks out. Then you measure it and mark with a magic marker the distances they require. You can use 12 gauge, but it'll be some what heavier and have a very minimal affect on broadbanding. If you know any electricians in your area, see if they can get you some THHN 14 or 12. Or you can go to any electrical outlet store and purchase what you need.
Keep us posted and if you need more questions answered, post 'em.
HTH

 

[darticus]

Does this have to be a one piece wire or can it be 2 20 foot pieces. Do you put this on with the antenna standing or on the ground? Never did this Wow! Ron
\

14 gauge solid wire, (I'm a retired electrician, so had access to what I needed). I took #14 THHN and stripped off the insulation and did a little stretch using my vise and lineman's pliers. All it takes is just enough pull to get any minor kinks out. Then you measure it and mark with a magic marker the distances they require. You can use 12 gauge, but it'll be some what heavier and have a very minimal affect on broadbanding. If you know any electricians in your area, see if they can get you some THHN 14 or 12. Or you can go to any electrical outlet store and purchase what you need.
Keep us posted and if you need more questions answered, post 'em.
HTH

 

[KC4RAF]

Ron, the best results would be to use one (1)

continuous length. You could use pieces, but then you would have corrosion build-up between the connections, thus reducing the quality of you tx/rec.
If you can have the beam on a temporary mount, then connect your copper wire; you would have a better and more accurate spacing between tie-points, (meaning that the elements have to be 90 degree to the boom support).
Know you want to get it up fast to start using it, BUT, take your time. If you can enlist the help of somebody out in your area, that would be a big plus.
BTW, it's a 6 element beam? You're gonna have your hands full my friend; diffidently get some extra hands on board!
Hope this post helps, if unclear, give us a holler again. We understand that you've never worked an antenna of this nature, and it can get confusing, even for those of us who have put 'em up before!!!

 

[darticus]

I take my time. Hope I get it up.Thanks Ron

continuous length. You could use pieces, but then you would have corrosion build-up between the connections, thus reducing the quality of you tx/rec.
If you can have the beam on a temporary mount, then connect your copper wire; you would have a better and more accurate spacing between tie-points, (meaning that the elements have to be 90 degree to the boom support).
Know you want to get it up fast to start using it, BUT, take your time. If you can enlist the help of somebody out in your area, that would be a big plus.
BTW, it's a 6 element beam? You're gonna have your hands full my friend; diffidently get some extra hands on board!
Hope this post helps, if unclear, give us a holler again. We understand that you've never worked an antenna of this nature, and it can get confusing, even for those of us who have put 'em up before!!!

 

[JayMojave]

Hello Ron: Use to use 14 gauge wire on my Moonraker 4 element beams, reflector element.

I put one end in the Vice and pulled on it to stretch it out before putting in on the Moonraker Beam.

I have rebuilt the Moonraker with new Billet Aluminum Hubs, as the old ones crack real easy rendering the antenna useless. I used 10 Gauge Formvar coated wire, again I put in the Vice to stretch and it didn't stretch all that much. The 14 gauge wire after time does stretch and then sag while on the antenna. I am sure other types of insulated wire will work just fine I did not measure any difference going from 14 gauge to 10 gauge wire.

Jay in the Mojave