RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > U.S. Regional Radio Discussion Forums > Colorado Radio Discussion Forum

Colorado Radio Discussion Forum Forum for discussing Radio Information in the State of Colorado.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2012, 9:14 AM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gilcrest, CO
Posts: 340
Lightbulb Talk Group 2808 & 2810 Lifeguard

Has anyone else noticed the new talk groups for air life? I have received 2808 and 2810 so far off the Greeley South tower. They are using the talk groups in flight (previously not allowed?) for status and location updates.

Shawn
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
        
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2012, 9:53 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Adams County Colorado
Posts: 147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScannerSK View Post
Has anyone else noticed the new talk groups for air life? I have received 2808 and 2810 so far off the Greeley South tower. They are using the talk groups in flight (previously not allowed?) for status and location updates.

Shawn
Heard these two, believe it was Flight For Life. Also heard AdComm talking to AirLife yesterday for chopper go on TG 3996 and stated it was "airnet". I'm thinking 2808 and 2810 might be patches.
__________________
Steve

Last edited by WaveRunner; 01-04-2012 at 9:56 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2012, 11:28 AM
rfburns's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScannerSK View Post
They are using the talk groups in flight (previously not allowed?) for status and location updates.
Shawn
Aircraft are only allowed to affiliate on a few select sites so as not to cause interference. That includes other aircraft such as CSP and CAP. Does anyone here have a list of the allowed sites?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2012, 8:04 PM
rfburns's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveRunner View Post
I'm thinking 2808 and 2810 might be patches.
That's possible as TG's 2801, 2804, 2805 and 2809 have also been showing up.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2012, 2:07 AM
Moosemedic's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 302
Default Interference?

Why would an aircraft cause any more interference than a ground unit on top of a hill?

This isn't the old days of "everyone is on FERN" and a 110 watt syntor without PL tones would light up the entire front range

Isn't the whole idea of site controllers and voting systems to make sure the aircraft is only capturing one single site?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2012, 8:48 AM
abqscan's Avatar
DataBase Administrator
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AOA
Posts: 2,427
Default

What if the bird is at 2000' AGL and grabs a site 100 miles away. Then the site far away now has to carry additional traffic it normally wouldn't. This is no different when agencies outside of the metro area travel to Denver and have their radio on. I love listening to Durango PD in Denver ;-)

Wall of Shame
__________________
-Erik
I love my SBS-1eR & Mode-S Beast!
MNN-088
Rules and guidelines for forum post content
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:15 AM
greenthumb's Avatar
Colorado DB Administrator
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,850
Default

Here is the CCNC policy on aircraft using DTRS:

Quote:
CHAPTER 14 AIRCRAFT COMMUNICATIONS

Use of trunked talkgroups on DTR by aircraft is only allowed for authorized radios which are installed as fixed radios in the aircraft. The operation of DTR radios onboard aircraft is governed by Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 90 Private Land Mobile Radio Services §90.423. As authorized in §90.423(a) (4), to minimize the interference potential to the DTR system, radios operated in aircraft must be limited to 3 watts Effective Radiated Power (ERP), shall not be used when the aircraft’s elevation exceeds 3,000 feet above ground level (AGL), and shall have the radio ID assigned to the “Aircraft” Radio User Site Access Profile in the User Configuration Manager (UCM). The “Aircraft” Radio User Site Access Profile will only allow aircraft radios to be used at a pre-determined set of sites on the DTRS. Aircraft radio operators should be aware that the Doppler Effect may significantly degrade their aircraft’s DTR radio performance when traveling at speeds greater than approximately 150 knots. Due to frequency reuse, statewide coverage for DTR radios in aircraft is not guaranteed, and operators of aircraft DTR radios are encouraged to become familiar with the coverage of the system in their normal operating area while in the air and on the ground. Due to the limited number of sites available for use by aircraft DTR radios, once an aircraft gets close to the ground, DTR coverage may be degraded depending on its proximity to the available sites. If DTR coverage is not available the only channels available for aircraft air to ground communications are conventional analog simplex channels STACD, 8CALL90D, 8TAC91D, 8TAC92D, 8TAC93D, 8TAC94D and conventional simplex P25 digital channels SMPX 1 through SMPX 5.

Any portable radio that can operate on DTR carried aboard an aircraft shall be turned off prior to the aircraft taking off, this includes any radio typically assigned to units that perform duties on the ground including but not limited to all law enforcement radios, fire service radios or EMS radios. These radios may only be turned back on once the aircraft has landed.

A request to use a radio on DTR in an aircraft shall first be presented to the CCNC Technical Committee by submitting the COLORADO STATEWIDE DIGITAL TRUNKED RADIO (DTR) SYSTEM AIRCRAFT OPERATION APPLICATION (APPENDIX N)

The request will be reviewed and a recommendation passed on to the CCNC Executive Board. The CCNC Executive Board will receive this recommendation from the CCNC Technical Committee, and has the final approval authority for the request.
__________________
Colorado Database Administrator
Forums Moderator
Rules and guidelines for forum post content
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2012, 4:39 PM
datainmotion's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,490
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abqscan View Post
Classic.

A number of those agencies have a dedicated "Travel" TG too...
__________________
Travelling through Colorado?
KDEN/ZDV Feeds
wir hören zu
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2012, 7:42 PM
greenthumb's Avatar
Colorado DB Administrator
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosemedic View Post
Why would an aircraft cause any more interference than a ground unit on top of a hill?
It won't, but I have heard through the grapevine that they have been the source of substantial problems in the past, particularly when the aircraft is being a spotter for a surveillance operation or during speed checks.

Quote:
Isn't the whole idea of site controllers and voting systems to make sure the aircraft is only capturing one single site?
No - since frequencies are re-used across the system, the fact that a signal can travel and cause interference can't be overcome. Not with an interference susceptible modulation like analog or those used in P25, anyway.
__________________
Colorado Database Administrator
Forums Moderator
Rules and guidelines for forum post content
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2012, 9:14 AM
Moosemedic's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 302
Default

I think the reason they've been a "substantial problem in the past" is the past situation, (and was mentioned by another poster) for example speed traps were run often on CSP 3. And at altitude, sure, they'd hit a variety of sites. And if there was no PL, then those would repeat and the area blanketed is larger.

If a Helicopter, flying 1,000' AGL has a radio with a limited number of sites programed, and each site is looking for that authorized radio on a specific control channel, and they select a talkgroup close to them, there's not much likelihood that you're going to be hitting sites a long way away. Even as you fly along, there's still only going to be a specific control channel, looking for an authorized user, and carrying the conversation forward. If a helicopter from northern Colorado gets up in the air and wants to talk to an agency out on the eastern plains, it's not going to have the same control channel, and the site (for example) hit near Estes Park, won't have Milken Fire's talkgroup on it. They'd have to have, perhaps, Glenwood Springs Fire's talkgroup in their radio, and selected, to cause a problem with affiliation while traveling

The DTRS is not intended for a HEMS crew to call DHMC from Grand Junction (although I think you could), if used for a med report, it's when calling the New St. A's as they pop out over Green Mountain. The effect wouldn't be that much different than a West Metro unit on top of Green Mountain with an injured bike rider. And with the power output limited to 3 watts on a fixed unit in the aircraft, and a directional antenna with a downward pattern, as it's designed to work.

Besides that, how often is this going to be in use for statewide conversations? You're talking about an aircraft, communicating with a ground unit just prior to landing, and perhaps those departing Thank You's from each agency. Without direct communication, you're still seeing HEMS using FERN, NLEC, HEAR etc, while in the air, and if the juridictional communications center has FERN patched to their 800 system, and that's left open 24/7, I can see the potential from an airborne transmission on FERN going to MANY MANY agencies that have left the patch active. Isn't it LESS likely that having an authorized user, on a recognized radio on a predetermined control channel, on the agency underneath the aircraft's talkgroup, talking to an Engine on the ground during landing, have a more discreet conversation than blasting everyone on a FERN-to-800 talkgroup?

I'm just wondering how much of this is a byproduct of not understanding how DTRS works, history from a system that's not designed for aircraft, and the "turn off your cellphone or we'll crash" FAA hype.

All food for thought
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2012, 5:36 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 59
Default

Hearing 2808 referred to as "AIRMED 800" this afternoon. Yesterday I noted a fair amount of traffic between "Comm Center" to "Lifeguard 5" at locations in Southern Colorado. This afternoon I heard "Comm Center" attempting to contact "Lifeguard 1" on 2808 calling the TG "AIRMED 800". All of this traffic is coming off the Smoky Hill tower.

I'm fairly confident that "Comm Center" is the St. A's Flight for Life Comm Center, since Lifeguard 1 and is one of their birds. Not sure about Lifeguard 5 though. I'm still hearing traffic on the 130.150 AM frequency, but it doesn't appear as though the 2808 talkgroup is patched to it.

Also of note, I have not heard any comms on the old D&C 10 (462.975) since SAC moved to Lakewood. I have, however, been hearing the FFL CCT's on the SAC ER talkgroup (81 on the DTRS).
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2012, 10:34 PM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Castle Rock, Co.
Posts: 741
Default

This is a newer entry in the database it is however listed as lifeguard air ambulance. I have also heard this referred as airmed 800 on the same tower as well.
__________________
Pro-2096
Pro-106
(3)Pro-197
BCD396XT
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2012, 11:55 PM
jimmnn's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 14,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrunner_medic View Post
Hearing 2808 referred to as "AIRMED 800" this afternoon. Yesterday I noted a fair amount of traffic between "Comm Center" to "Lifeguard 5" at locations in Southern Colorado. This afternoon I heard "Comm Center" attempting to contact "Lifeguard 1" on 2808 calling the TG "AIRMED 800". All of this traffic is coming off the Smoky Hill tower.

I'm fairly confident that "Comm Center" is the St. A's Flight for Life Comm Center, since Lifeguard 1 and is one of their birds. Not sure about Lifeguard 5 though. I'm still hearing traffic on the 130.150 AM frequency, but it doesn't appear as though the 2808 talkgroup is patched to it.

Also of note, I have not heard any comms on the old D&C 10 (462.975) since SAC moved to Lakewood. I have, however, been hearing the FFL CCT's on the SAC ER talkgroup (81 on the DTRS).
Comm Center is indeed FFL dispatch and there having to use DTRS now for flight following since they've expanded there operations.

L/G 1 = Denver
L/G 2 = Frisco
L/G 3 = Colo Springs
L/G 4 = Pueblo
and
L/G 5 = Durango

Jim<
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2012, 2:15 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmnn View Post
Comm Center is indeed FFL dispatch and there having to use DTRS now for flight following since they've expanded there operations.

L/G 1 = Denver
L/G 2 = Frisco
L/G 3 = Colo Springs
L/G 4 = Pueblo
and
L/G 5 = Durango

Jim<
Thanks for the info. I had no idea that FFL had a LG 5 down in Durango. It'll be interesting to see what the other 28xx series talkgroups turn up as. I have a feeling that not all of them belong to SAC/FFL. So far I've not heard anything on 2810 or the others.

On another semi-related note, I have not noticed any changes for AirLife. CCT's continue to operate on D&C 9 (462.950) and helos are still on 129.275 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2012, 11:48 AM
rckydenver's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 1,437
Default

Alittle off topic on TG's here but saw this on KCNC website. Med Copper in Vail.

Addition Of Medical Helicopter In Vail A Huge Help « CBS Denver
__________________
Tom/MNN 140 My first scanner a Bearcat IV
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2012, 11:58 AM
jimmnn's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 14,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rckydenver View Post
Alittle off topic on TG's here but saw this on KCNC website. Med Copper in Vail.

Addition Of Medical Helicopter In Vail A Huge Help « CBS Denver
That's Tristate Careflight and they've been based in Eagle Airport over a year but are now moving to Vail during the day.

Thanks Tom

Jim<
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2012, 2:29 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Western U.S.
Posts: 2,403
Default

Thanks Jim! On I-70 I drove past their helo two weeks ago and wondered who they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmnn View Post
That's Tristate Careflight and they've been based in Eagle Airport over a year but are now moving to Vail during the day.

Thanks Tom

Jim<
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2012, 4:31 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 59
Default

It appears as though I spoke too soon about FFL's use of D&C 10. Yesterday I caught an L/G unit communicating with the SAC Comm Center on D&C 10 (462.975) with the normal PL of 136.5. However, the "Terra" CCT units are still showing up mainly on the SAC ER talkgroup (81 on DTRS).

Edited to say: I'm not sure what criteria they are using to dictate which radio system to use (Air AM, UHF, or DTRS), but I think its a good idea to leave all these frequencies in play if you're monitoring FFL.

Edited one last time to add: Does anyone have any frequency info for Tristate Careflight? These are not the same guys that do Careflight in Grand Junction right?

Last edited by rdrunner_medic; 01-20-2012 at 4:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2012, 5:02 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Western U.S.
Posts: 2,403
Default

I've been wondering who the use was on 462.975 136.5 for the last couple of months I've been hearing them from my location in Colorado Springs. They seem to be in Jefferson County a lot of the time. I could not locate this frq/tone in the database. Thanks rdrunner_medic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrunner_medic View Post
It appears as though I spoke too soon about FFL's use of D&C 10. Yesterday I caught an L/G unit communicating with the SAC Comm Center on D&C 10 (462.975) with the normal PL of 136.5. However, the "Terra" CCT units are still showing up mainly on the SAC ER talkgroup (81 on DTRS).

Edited to say: I'm not sure what criteria they are using to dictate which radio system to use (Air AM, UHF, or DTRS), but I think its a good idea to leave all these frequencies in play if you're monitoring FFL.

Edited one last time to add: Does anyone have any frequency info for Tristate Careflight? These are not the same guys that do Careflight in Grand Junction right?
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2012, 6:28 PM
jimmnn's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 14,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I've been wondering who the use was on 462.975 136.5 for the last couple of months I've been hearing them from my location in Colorado Springs. They seem to be in Jefferson County a lot of the time. I could not locate this frq/tone in the database. Thanks rdrunner_medic.
That's always been DC 10 (Med Channel 10) in the metro area used primarily my St A's comm center since ambulances are now using cell phones or hospital TG's for there med reports.

Jim<
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2011 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions