Denver Fire: Tactical Comms

[RFsponge]

Greetings all-

Can anyone offer insight as to what Denver Fire units refer to as "Repeater 2" and "Repeater 3" (and probably other similar designations) are when establishing tactical communications on scenes? I have heard it for the past few evenings and can say with high confidence that they are not tactical fire district talkgroups nor are they "radio-to-radio" simplex frequencies.

We are starting to use IP-based radios in our vehicles when were are out of range of our repeaters. I wonder if Denver Fire has deployed something similar in command vehicles or the like...

As always, thank you all in advance for your insights.

Rob

 

[jimmnn]

Believe this is referencing the mobile repeaters located in the district chief vehicles.

Jim<

 

[natedawg1604]

Believe this is referencing the mobile repeaters located in the district chief vehicles.

Jim<

Mobile repeaters used for what???

 

[jimmnn]

Mobile repeaters used for what???

To repeat the signal and increase especially in-building radio coverage.

Jim<

 

[natedawg1604]

To repeat the signal and increase especially in-building radio coverage.

Jim<

In other words, to repeat signals from the standard 800 MHz radios used on the EDACS system?

 

[04Z1V6]

In other words, to repeat signals from the standard 800 MHz radios used on the EDACS system?

Yes, there would be nothing worse than a fire fighter calling a "May Day" and having command having to say can you repeat you are " Digital" .. In large new buildings and extensive remodels fire code and some jurisdictions require a building wide antenna system that stops this from happening on 800 Mhz systems. If you have a repeater near by and no building wide system is available this too reduces the rate of unreadable comms. Fire departments complain all the time about this system or that has caused fire fighter safety issues but if they would build redundancy into the system such as this it is less likely this will happen.

 

[abqscan]

In other words, to repeat signals from the standard 800 MHz radios used on the EDACS system?

They are simplex 800MHz, not part of the EDACS.

852.86250 DFD FG-1 Fireground (used where TRS does not work well)
853.32500 DFD FG-2 Fireground (used where TRS does not work well)

 

[RFsponge]

They are simplex 800MHz, not part of the EDACS.

852.86250 DFD FG-1 Fireground (used where TRS does not work well)
853.32500 DFD FG-2 Fireground (used where TRS does not work well)

These frequencies are what I thought they were refering to when I first heard the "repeater" term. I can tell you that I have had to opportunity to closely monitor tactical radio traffic on some recent calls when units were told to use "Repeater (whatever)" and these simplex fireground frequencies were not in use. (and why would you refer to a simplex frequency as a "repeater" anyway?)

Additionally, there was a three-alarm high-rise fire a few Sundays ago downtown where I monitored these simplex firegrounds, refered to by firefighters as "radio to radio," in use in and around the building, so I believe two distinct systems or methods of tactical comms are now deployed by the Department.

A repeater in Chiefs' vehicles makes the most sense to me. Although if it's not reporting to the EDACS, (and as far as I can tell it's not) where is the repeated traffic going? I still wonder if an IP-based (Internet Protocol) system is now in use...

...which would render monitoring them with current gear impossible... unless you get their IP address... and encryption key... without breaking any laws... sigh.

Thanks again everyone! I have faith we'll know what's up sooner rather than later.

Rob

 

[abqscan]

Sorry, I shouldn't have used the term Simplex. These two frequencies are in use and they do indeed use a repeater. There are times that they patch it to one of the DFD TRS Tg's.

 

[RFsponge]

Sorry, I shouldn't have used the term Simplex. These two frequencies are in use and they do indeed use a repeater. There are times that they patch it to one of the DFD TRS Tg's.

I'm sorry Erik, the perils of being imprecise. I didn't mean YOU referring to a simplex system as repeated, I meant fire crews on scenes. I'm sure it's as simple as an alpha tag in a radio for them but it could lead to confusion...

So you are saying that these firegrounds are in use and are repeated by a command vehicle. So there's got to be an output frequency from the repeater and, thus far, I am unable to find it. Either in the clear or on EDACS. And the input frequencies must also be different as the "radio-to-radio" ones are not active on these scenes...

Thanks!

 

[greenthumb]

Just guessing here, but maybe they use the outputs of those frequencies as simplex when they need it but when they want to have continuity between conventional and EDACS, they flip on the repeater (-45 MHz from the frequencies Erik has above for the input) and then it also sends the audio out an EDACS radio in the command vehicle.

It would need to have really good filtering or lots of antenna separation to work well though!

 

[dw2872]

DFD Incident-2 is currently active with an alarm at 1750 Welton Street at the Grand Hyatt and Tower-4 said they "will take this to Repeater-2 with updates on Incident-2"

Dispatch replied with, "Dispatch copies, going to Repeater linked to Incident-2"

It sounded like I was hearing everything from inside the high rise on Incident-2 after that just like normal.

From what I can tell now, the "Repeater-2" radio ID (EDACS LID) is 13943. Looking back, it shows up on Incident-2 when they say they are going to use "Repeater-2" or "R to R 2". You can then hear everyone on the incident transmitting from that radio ID.

 

[Steve2003]

The WPEI989 license states:
DENVER FIRE DEPARTMENT MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS

The license was just updated on 12/17 & it looks like there is a transmitter licensed on Mt. Morrison. Anyone have any insight?

 

[dw2872]

If anyone hears DFD talking about a "repeater" on any other channel besides "Incident-2" please post when you hear it and I can take a look to see which other radio IDs correspond to the other mobile repeaters. It will probably be only for high-rise calls though.

 

[kc0kp]

DFD has been using mobile repeaters linked into the radio system for over 20 years now.

 

[dw2872]

DFD has been using mobile repeaters linked into the radio system for over 20 years now.

Haha, nice. I just saw this. True, I'm sure. But it doesn't mean we can't talk about the modern repeaters and radio lingo related to it. Great question by the OP!

 

[Steve2003]

Looks like the FCC going to require registration for signal boosters:

https://signalboosters.fcc.gov/signal-boosters/

MissionCritical Communications, Radio Resource International, and Public Safety Report - wireless voice and data communications for mobile, remote and public safety operations

Anybody know if this would apply to the in-building signal boosters used by DFD?