Why is it a mystery?

[04Z1V6]

I started using the scanner in about 1976 and sometime in the 80's I started to understand that the radios where able to be "encrypted". Why is it that well trained people don't know how to use there radio's before getting them? Example: I was up fishing in south park and on the way home I was listening to 3 or 4 wildlife officers talking and one was telling the others how to use encryption on there radios and how not all of the radios would work if they used it because some were old and some were new. It seems to me if you put them out there with this type of technology maybe it would be a officer safety problem if they don't know how to use it and they are unable to communicate with each other. I have heard this type of thing over and over threw the years and can't understand why this would not be part of fallow up training. Now I can see why some areas want full encryption or none at all and the problem it will create if you need to use mutual aid in a area that only a hand full of radios are using it.Please do not make this a good cop bad cop thing.
Is this a programming problem?
Is this a button that all new radios have?
If they are full encrypted can they ever talk un-encrypted?
If they go to a MAC channel will they be able to use it?
Can the manufactured systems talk to each other?
This is just some of what I heard asked and I don't know the answers for. This was both the Springs and the Denver guys talking as they were doing licence checks and fish samples and all were officers not volunteers. I know because I talked to one on the river I was on, and he checked my licence and ran me and my firearm.

 

[MTS2000des]

Is this a programming problem?

Possibly.

Is this a button that all new radios have?

Most subscriber radios allow encryption to be turned on and off via a switch, but it can be a programmable button, a menu option, or the system manager can slave modes/channels to encrypted (or clear) only. It all depends on how those in charge of the system had the radios programmed.

If they are full encrypted can they ever talk un-encrypted?

Yes, see answer above. To reiterate, it is all in how those in charge of the system configure the subscriber radios.

If they go to a MAC channel will they be able to use it?

I ASSume a "MAC" channel is mutual aid? If they are programmed to not use encryption on those mutual aid channels/talkgroups then yes, they can use them just fine.

Can the manufactured systems talk to each other?

I ASSume you are referring to different brands of secure voice subscriber radios being able to operate in the encrypted mode. If the radios support industry standard encryption algorithms such as AES-256, then yes, they can communicate in the secure mode provided the keys and CKRs are the same and the radios are configured to do so.

If proprietary encryption is used, such as Motorola's Advanced Digital Privacy (ADP) for example, then other manufacturer's radio will not communicate in secure (coded) mode.

This is one the major issues with rolling out encryption, not only do the keys and CKR's/KID's match, but the algorithm has to be supported by all the various subscriber radios of different vendors.

The Federal government has pretty much stated that AES-256 is THE encryption standard but many do not follow it due to cost and opt for lower cost and much less secure proprietary algorithms.

 

[eaf1956]

I started using the scanner in about 1976 and sometime in the 80's I started to understand that the radios where able to be "encrypted". Why is it that well trained people don't know how to use there radio's before getting them? Example: I was up fishing in south park and on the way home I was listening to 3 or 4 wildlife officers talking and one was telling the others how to use encryption on there radios and how not all of the radios would work if they used it because some were old and some were new. It seems to me if you put them out there with this type of technology maybe it would be a officer safety problem if they don't know how to use it and they are unable to communicate with each other. I have heard this type of thing over and over threw the years and can't understand why this would not be part of fallow up training. Now I can see why some areas want full encryption or none at all and the problem it will create if you need to use mutual aid in a area that only a hand full of radios are using it.Please do not make this a good cop bad cop thing.
Is this a programming problem?
Is this a button that all new radios have?
If they are full encrypted can they ever talk un-encrypted?
If they go to a MAC channel will they be able to use it?
Can the manufactured systems talk to each other?
This is just some of what I heard asked and I don't know the answers for. This was both the Springs and the Denver guys talking as they were doing licence checks and fish samples and all were officers not volunteers. I know because I talked to one on the river I was on, and he checked my licence and ran me and my firearm.

In the military while overseas, we had radios with encrypted capability. The problem was the KEY CODE was changed monthly and sometimes the radios were not updated or the key wasn't done correctly. Therefore, you tended to use OPEN COMM just so you knew you could be heard. Good old Communications Security at work. And just so you know it was a Nuclear missile squadron stationed overseas with the Ground Launched cruise missiles BGM109. And now they are no longer operational.

 

[mikewazowski]

Thread moved as this is not Breaking News.

 

[Spitfire8520]

Is this a programming problem?

For the case you mentioned, it could be a programming issue if they rolled out encryption and didn't have a well organized reprogramming of all the units they have. It could also be that the "older" radios are of a different brand and don't support a proprietary (Motorola ADP) algorithm.

Is this a button that all new radios have?

As mentioned by MTS2000des, it's normally a switch on the radio in the instance that encryption selection is allowed. There is a movement to disable the switch and programming it into the radio as different channels if selectable encryption is allowed (eg. TAC1 vs. TAC1 ENC).

If they are full encrypted can they ever talk un-encrypted?

It's all up to system configuration as mentioned before. Many of the talkgroups using encryption in Colorado are programmed so users cannot switch it off to prevent accidentally transmitting in the clear. The reason for this is many subscriber units differentiates encryption and clear with only Ø vs. O. The above method might be used in it's place if it were allowed.

If they go to a MAC channel will they be able to use it?

MACs should never see encryption at any point in time due to interoperability. I think that all subscriber unit are programmed to not encrypt when on a MAC.

Can the manufactured systems talk to each other?

The previous answer by MTS2000des is a very good one. A large majority of Colorado users end up using Motorola ADP, so only Motorola subscriber units will be able hear those talkgroups.

 

[RodStrong]

A large majority of Colorado users end up using Motorola ADP, so only Motorola subscriber units will be able hear those talkgroups.

Actually the Relm KNG-P800 can do ADP as well.

 

[jaspence]

After over thirty years in public service, I found the main factor for our our lack of training was poor planning. As soon as money for something new was allocated, the item was purchased. Rarely was any consideration given to training expense beyond the on-off switch and very basic operation. This was also true in planning maintenance/replacement costs. It is more impressive to tell the public you have the newest and best and not tell them you don't know how it works and requires more funds.

 

[04Z1V6]

Guys, thank you very much. Allot of good information in this thread. When I was on the ambulance we just turned the radio on and it was as easy as turning the dial, the hardest radio we used was the biophone and it was only a pain when you sent telemetry and the doctors hated that because of all the artifact.