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Old 11-25-2007, 8:31 PM
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Default Public Safety Auctions?

I am wanting(or more like wishing)a Motorola XTS 800mhz radio, and I was wondering if any PS agencies, when they auction off their old stuff, would auction old Radios, especially those agencies that are getting rid of 800mhz radios and replacing them with 800/700 radios. I'm assuming not, but I figured it was worth a try! Thanks!
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Old 11-26-2007, 1:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfab
I was wondering if any PS agencies, when they auction off their old stuff, would auction old Radios, especially those agencies that are getting rid of 800mhz radios and replacing them with 800/700 radios. I'm assuming not, but I figured it was worth a try! Thanks!
Not likely you'll find any XTS's lying around for auction anytime soon. There are always some on Ebay however.

If you are looking for an XTS to monitor Colorado's DTR system, that would be a waste of your time and money. Believe it or not, a good digital trunking scanner is what you want (versus an actual tranceiver) and is much more efficient for scanning than a tranceiver would be. Tranceivers on the state's DTR system are very limited to what they can scan, but a scanner is not. A tranceiver cannot simulatneously scan several towers, where a scanner can. Trying to scan our DTR system with a transceiver would be the equivalent of you isolating yourself from a lot of radio traffic.
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Old 11-26-2007, 2:43 AM
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By and large, if a department is buying new radios, and the old ones are still 'supported' as current by Motorola, I believe that usually part of the contract is for Motorola to 'buy back' the old radios for refurbishment and resale, to defray part of the costs of the new ones. Of course, if the old radios are really out of date, they won't do this.
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Old 11-26-2007, 8:40 AM
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Default Motorola

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkipSanders
By and large, if a department is buying new radios, and the old ones are still 'supported' as current by Motorola, I believe that usually part of the contract is for Motorola to 'buy back' the old radios for refurbishment and resale, to defray part of the costs of the new ones. Of course, if the old radios are really out of date, they won't do this.
That is true. Motorola in the past to control the market will even buy back obsolete radios only to destroy them.
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Old 11-26-2007, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodStrong
Not likely you'll find any XTS's lying around for auction anytime soon. There are always some on Ebay however.

If you are looking for an XTS to monitor Colorado's DTR system, that would be a waste of your time and money. Believe it or not, a good digital trunking scanner is what you want (versus an actual tranceiver) and is much more efficient for scanning than a tranceiver would be. Tranceivers on the state's DTR system are very limited to what they can scan, but a scanner is not. A tranceiver cannot simulatneously scan several towers, where a scanner can. Trying to scan our DTR system with a transceiver would be the equivalent of you isolating yourself from a lot of radio traffic.
I do currently have a Uniden 396t, however my mom has a XTS 3000 for work. Since I can't really carry that around without worrying about running into one of her co-workers(or worse, her boss ) I would like to purchase one of my own. I would still use both radios.
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Old 11-26-2007, 6:20 PM
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You cannot use an XTS-3000 on an ASTRO-25 system (DTRS) without the radio affiliating with the system. If you program the radio not to affiliate, the radio will not pass any radio traffic (remain muted) until it affiliates. Affiliating with the system would be a violation of FCC regulations (unlicensed operation) and potentially a violation of State statutes for accessing State computer systems without authorization. It is also a potential problem because you may be dragging talk groups to sites unnecessarily (you don't NEED the group there like public safety workers do). Additionally, you must have a Motorola system key to program a radio onto an ASTRO-25 trunked system, and having the key without proper authorization can be grounds for Motorola taking civil action against you for the violation of Intellectual Property rights.

The bottom line is to be happy with your Uniden scanner and forget the idea of having a Motorola radio on the DTRS system. Besides, CCNC will not allow anyone to have personally-owned radios on the system, even if you are a public safety employee.
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Old 11-26-2007, 6:35 PM
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I was under the impression that people had portables on the state system?? This last scanner meet I saw someone with one. Am I missing something? Thanks for the info though, MMIC!
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Old 11-26-2007, 6:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfab
I was under the impression that people had portables on the state system?? This last scanner meet I saw someone with one. Am I missing something? Thanks for the info though, MMIC!
Your might be mistaking those for Edacs portables on the Denver and Aurora systems.

Not aware of any non-public safety portables on DTRS because as was stated those radios all affliate with the zone control even just in reception mode.

Jim<
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Old 11-26-2007, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmnn
Not aware of any non-public safety portables on DTRS because as was stated those radios all affliate with the zone control even just in reception mode.

Jim<
I think there are techincally plenty of "non public safety" radios on DTR, but all affilated with a government agency. I think is the more appropriate way of putting it.

What the other poster stated about the radio constantly needing to affiliate with a tower is true. I wasn't gonna go there, but it is nearly impossible (not totally impossible) to have a radio on the system for recreational listening. What makes it possible also makes it illegal though. Colorado's DTR system is not something to play with. It is not the same thing as programming a radio to hit a repeater. Only so much can go wrong if you don't program a radio like that right. DTR is a computer network, and programming a radio on it improperly or using the radio impropery could cause havoc on the system statewide. it's more than screwing with your local analog repeater. It's messing with a statewide computer network.

It's hard to absorb why having a scanner is actually better than having a radio on the system, because it goes against the grain of traditional thought about scanning. But the bottom line is the guys out there with scanners hear much more than what anyone with an actual DTR radio can do for recreational listening. I would not trade my scanner for a DTR radio if my only goal was to monitor things.
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Old 11-26-2007, 8:16 PM
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Ok...thanks a bunch for all the info before I spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars! I guess I will just have to be sneaky with mom's!


So basically I can't just turn the radio on and expect it to work, I have to basically get permission from the tower(s) to recieve? Or tell the tower(s) specifically what radio to "talk" to? Hmm..not as easy as a scanner, eh?
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Old 11-26-2007, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfab
Ok...thanks a bunch for all the info before I spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars! I guess I will just have to be sneaky with mom's!


So basically I can't just turn the radio on and expect it to work, I have to basically get permission from the tower(s) to recieve? Or tell the tower(s) specifically what radio to "talk" to? Hmm..not as easy as a scanner, eh?
jfab - Not to blast you, but I would seriously recommend heeding the very subtle advise of the other users in this forum that have YEARS of experience in their field. Do not try it, don't think about it, don't even dream about it. The only thing that attempting to get a radio purchased on your own to communicate with the DTRS is going to do is land you in jail. Forget about the whole Law Enforcement career you dream of.

In regard to being "sneaky with mom's"...if you are the age your profile states, heed this advice...PUT IT DOWN!!! The only thing carrying around Mom's Radio is going to do is cause you AND her a world of problems. One day you'll be out and about and see an accident and follow that silly voice in your head that says "I'll just use the radio, this is an emergency!" The next thing you know, you have Paula Woodward knocking at your door asking you and your mother some very pointed questions...then the next knock at the door will be her boss handing her a box with all of her stuff from her desk in it....and one other thing...a pink slip.

Use the scanners...buy more! If you can afford $1000+ for an XTS, then buy 2 more scanners instead....you'll be MUCH happier, and your mom will still have a job!
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Old 11-26-2007, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireemt55
jfab - Not to blast you, but I would seriously recommend heeding the very subtle advise of the other users in this forum that have YEARS of experience in their field. Do not try it, don't think about it, don't even dream about it. The only thing that attempting to get a radio purchased on your own to communicate with the DTRS is going to do is land you in jail. Forget about the whole Law Enforcement career you dream of.

In regard to being "sneaky with mom's"...if you are the age your profile states, heed this advice...PUT IT DOWN!!! The only thing carrying around Mom's Radio is going to do is cause you AND her a world of problems. One day you'll be out and about and see an accident and follow that silly voice in your head that says "I'll just use the radio, this is an emergency!" The next thing you know, you have Paula Woodward knocking at your door asking you and your mother some very pointed questions...then the next knock at the door will be her boss handing her a box with all of her stuff from her desk in it....and one other thing...a pink slip.

Use the scanners...buy more! If you can afford $1000+ for an XTS, then buy 2 more scanners instead....you'll be MUCH happier, and your mom will still have a job!
No blast taken! I appritiate the advise. You are right, I concider you guys the experts, that's why I post these questions. As far as being sneaky with moms, that was a joke and I should have made that clear. I always have, and continue to, listen to that radio in the car and around the house and that's where it stays. It doesn't even come in the store or anything, that's what the 396 is for! Mom is always around when I have it, and if there ever was an emergency, I would call 911 just like anyone else. Besides, Paula Woodward doesn't seem like the type of person I want at my door! Thank you, fireemt55!
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:55 AM
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Default Mom's radio

One thing you might want to take into consideration is system busy.
When you have your momís HT on, you are adding another user to the system tower which could contribute to the system being overloaded at times. Almost like a cell tower you can only have so many users before it fills up. When that happens a user could get a system busy message.

The others on the thread could get into more of the details but, it might be something to think about.
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Old 11-29-2007, 6:35 PM
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Plus, of course, the system IS recording that the unit is turned on. If your mom is off duty, and not supposed to be on the air, eventually someone might just ask her why it's on. Best she have a real good answer. Not too likely to come up, but you should realize that misuse of an official radio can cause any number of problems, because it WILL be recorded on the system logs.
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Old 11-29-2007, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkipSanders
Plus, of course, the system IS recording that the unit is turned on. If your mom is off duty, and not supposed to be on the air, eventually someone might just ask her why it's on. Best she have a real good answer. Not too likely to come up, but you should realize that misuse of an official radio can cause any number of problems, because it WILL be recorded on the system logs.
As far as I know, she was advised in her Radio Training that she should keep her radio on whenever possible. If she got sick of it she could turn it off, but when she could have it on she should. So this is not a problem.
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Old 11-29-2007, 9:40 PM
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Who is Paula Woodward and why is she such a scary ol broad?
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Old 11-29-2007, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mancow
Who is Paula Woodward and why is she such a scary ol broad?
She's an investigative news reporter for a TV station in Denver. She's scary because she's a muckraker.
Does she have something to do with this thread?
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Old 12-01-2007, 3:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfab
As far as I know, she was advised in her Radio Training that she should keep her radio on whenever possible. If she got sick of it she could turn it off, but when she could have it on she should. So this is not a problem.
That don't sound right dude. Leaving it on may not be the end of the world, but telling a user to leave the radio on when possible does not sound right. Especially if the user is moving around and dragging the primary TG from site to site.
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Old 12-01-2007, 8:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodStrong
That don't sound right dude. Leaving it on may not be the end of the world, but telling a user to leave the radio on when possible does not sound right. Especially if the user is moving around and dragging the primary TG from site to site.
I will PM you...
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:04 PM
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Default Busy?

Rob198 wrote: "One thing you might want to take into consideration is system busy. When you have your momís HT on, you are adding another user to the system tower which could contribute to the system being overloaded at times. Almost like a cell tower you can only have so many users before it fills up. When that happens a user could get a system busy message."

Affiliations with a particular tower are done on the control channel, has nothing to do with getting a busy tone when someone tries to transmit. If there are too many folks on the tower trying to talk at the same time, yep, the radio will honk. That is an issue of not having enough voice channels on the site. Affiliations and deaffilliations and other data commands and queries are handled so fast (milliseconds) that hundreds of radios can be affiliated on the same site at the same time and not cause problems. Where cell networks get into trouble is when too many people try to yack at the same time and the system just doesn't have enough bandwith or voice channels to handle the load.

JFAB, would have to agree with everyone on the list, let your mom handle the real radio, since she is the only person authorized to do so, and stick to a good digital scanner to listen with. Its like playing with a highly flammable liquid, eventually, you are going to screw up and its going to blow up in your face!!!
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