Daniel Borenstein: Radio bids were not competitive

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Thunderbolt

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CONCORD, Calif -- When you go to buy a television or remodel your house, it's usually a good idea to compare prices. The same applies when government goes shopping with your tax dollars.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen when East Bay counties and cities started buying equipment and constructing a new emergency communications system that by one estimate will cost $110 million. Officials leading the effort to build the East Bay Regional Communications System now admit they erred by not obtaining competitive bids. In the meantime, millions of dollars were wasted.


http://www.contracostatimes.com/danielborenstein/ci_10401865
 

qc

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Going with Motorola is better then a M/A-COM OpenSky or Provoice that we can’t monitored









______________________________________________

BCD996T

PSR-500
 

hoser147

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Its possible to specify items in a bid. A way to to get around things, when one company holds the technology or the patent on a part. When Politics is involved, anything can happen and will.........Hoser
 

Stephen

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Well the problem with M/A COM is not the whole monitor thing, my agency uses a UHF M/A COM P25 System and it sucks the coverage is there but the equipment just does not handle moderate radio traffic, it randomly will shut down certain sites and at times will show a radio is talking and all you hear is silence (dispatch, mobiles, and handhelds) all radios do it randomly, and the audio is very poor quality, the city ajacent to us use a 800mhz analog system that has audio quality and reception incredibley better than ours and the system holds radio traffic with out a problem. One big thing I am tired of hearing about all these large M/A com systems like the P/A state system, florida, and even my agency is that "it's a new system give it time to be tweaked to work correctly", I usually call BS on that.
 
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ElroyJetson

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DO NOT ASK ME FOR HELP PROGRAMMING YOUR RADIO. NO.
The audio quality from the most commonly used M/A-Com portable radios (Jaguars, 7100s, 5100s, LPEs,
and M-RKs) is pretty mediocre, that's true, but it's because of the crappy speakers they put into them.
The mobile radios, the Orions and M7100s, sound pretty good.

Motorola radios have better audio almost every time because their speakers and mics are specifically
designed for Motorola to meet a specifcation, rather than choose an off-the-shelf generic speaker that
fits and does an adequate job.

Incidentally, monitoring ProVoice is easy if you have a M/A-Com radio with ProVoice. But OpenSky
is considerably tougher....and not just because the system is very close to scanner proof, but
also because OpenSky systems seem like they're almost never up and running! :D

You can't scan what's not on the air! :)




Elroy
 

zz0468

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They went with Motorola, so who cares what this Daniel guy thinks.

The Grand Jury?

Motorola isn't necessarily the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially now. Anything less than a fair and competitive bid is a disservice to the taxpayers, whether or not Motorola wins the bid.
 
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citylink_uk

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The Grand Jury?

Motorola isn't necessarily the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially now. Anything less than a fair and competitive bid is a disservice to the taxpayers, whether or not Motorola wins the bis.

Exactly.

It's sounds to me like they got drawn in to the Motorola sales pitch due to technical ignorance on their part. If I was in charge of my taxpayers money, I'd want to make sure that the money that I'm spending is justified and at least hire a consultancy company to assess the needs/bids before going ahead.

It seems Motorola has got the market sewn up as many of the various radio system bids I've looked at all require 'compatibility' with their legacy system which is usually a proprietary Smartnet/Zone.

The fact that MA/Com's Open Sky has such a bad track record only strengthens Motorola's position in the market. I think it's about time that some other big companies got together to provide a real competitor.
 
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EngineerZ

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The Grand Jury?

Motorola isn't necessarily the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially now. Anything less than a fair and competitive bid is a disservice to the taxpayers, whether or not Motorola wins the bis.

But this is RadioReference, where you must worship at the Motorola altar or be considered an outcast.

I've built radio systems using equipment from Motorola, M/A-COM, Kenwood, Tait, and others. I can tell you all vendors, including Motorola have issues. All of the above vendors can provide equipment that can be used to build highly reliable, public-safety grade systems. While some (including Motorola) offer proprietary technology, they all offer true P25 compatable systems and components that should be vetted in a competitive bid process when the agency is going to spend that kind of money. Competitive bidding doesn't necessarily mean low-bid either... Healthy competition is good for the industry.

--z
 

hoser147

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Exactly.

It's sounds to me like they got drawn in to the Motorola sales pitch due to technical ignorance on their part. If I was in charge of my taxpayers money, I'd want to make sure that the money that I'm spending is justified and at least hire a consultancy company to assess the needs/bids before going ahead.

It seems Motorola has got the market sewn up as many of the various radio system bids I've looked at all require 'compatibility' with their legacy system which is usually a proprietary Smartnet/Zone.

The fact that MA/Com's Open Sky has such a bad track record only strengthens Motorola's position in the market. I think it's about time that some other big companies got together to provide a real competitor.
You hit the nail on the head there..........
 

zz0468

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But this is RadioReference, where you must worship at the Motorola altar or be considered an outcast.

I'm perfectly content to be an outcast, especially here, and especially about that. There's no love lost between me and either Motorola OR M/A-Com. I've written some tight specs, made 'em both jump through hoops, and ended up awarding bids to both. And they both met my expectations, which were set reasonably low. And everything I did would stand up to the scrutiny of the grand jury. =)
 

MTS2000des

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But this is RadioReference, where you must worship at the Motorola altar or be considered an outcast.

I've built radio systems using equipment from Motorola, M/A-COM, Kenwood, Tait, and others. I can tell you all vendors, including Motorola have issues. All of the above vendors can provide equipment that can be used to build highly reliable, public-safety grade systems. While some (including Motorola) offer proprietary technology, they all offer true P25 compatable systems and components that should be vetted in a competitive bid process when the agency is going to spend that kind of money. Competitive bidding doesn't necessarily mean low-bid either... Healthy competition is good for the industry.

--z


The bottom line is as in any business, it is the responsibility of the customer to ensure they are getting their money's worth. The problem is, the decisions are made by customers who rely solely on sales information and paid "consultants" who usually have a vested interest in a particular vendor.

The so-called RFP's that don't allow for competitive bids or call for proprietary systems are an insult to taxpayers and a disservice to the agencies who end up pissing money away. It's a further insult to the first responders who are forced to use systems that are not optimized for performance and not meeting spec because some idiot paper pusher who knows nothng about radio decided "we don't need 10 sites" and then users wind up dealing with a system that barely supports mobile coverage. Promises of "interoperability" go unfulfilled because vendor A's walled garden system won't allow vendor B's subsrciber radios.

It is absurd to me that in 2008, the average amateur radio operator can achieve more "interoperabilty", performance, coverage and reliability using a 200 dollar multi-band HT and EchoLink than some of our 100 million dollar digitial trunked radio systems can provide.

The way these systems are spec'ed and RFP'd is broken. No other industry conducts business in this manner.

Our governments have wasted billions of dollars and we aren't getting what we pay for.
 

rescuecomm

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Well some of the problem stems from the 700/800 mhz frequencies used in the systems. Single sited systems in varied terrain on 700/800 just don't make sense. If the aim was to provide spectrum for public safety, then making the 470-512 mhz T-Band freqs available nationwide would have made more sense than clearing the upper UHF TV bands. That would have required facing down the NAB people which the FCC really doesn't want to do. The reason the NAB let the 700/800 go was that the cost of getting coverage at that frequency was far greater that at 512 mhz. So public safety got the dregs that only the cell phone people could make work with multiple sites.

Bob
 

qc

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Hers the Response to Daniel Borenstein article in the Contra Costa Times from East Bay Regional Communications System Authority.


http://www.ebrcsa.org/SitePDFs/MED090608NEWS.pdf


Response to Daniel Borenstein article in the Contra Costa Times 9/6/08
Daniel Borenstein wrote an article that appeared in the Contra Costa Times and other ANG newspapers that was critical of the EBRCSA project and the cost. I would like to provide some clarification as there were several inaccuracies in the article. The main focus of the article revolves around the initial RFP that Alameda County issued and the subsequent contract with Motorola.
Alameda County issued an RFP to replace its existing 800 MHz radio system and included language that the new system must be P25 compliant and have connectivity with the existing legacy system. The RFP also requested a two county design to provide a system that could serve the users in Alameda and Contra Costa counties. The RFP was not written as a sole source RFP, and it was anticipated that multiple vendors would bid on the system. There were at least two vendors, Motorola and MA/COM, that were capable of responding to the RFP. There was only one respondent to the RFP, Motorola. Alameda County entered into a contract with Motorola to purchase up to $16 million in infrastructure and complete the two county design. Motorola delivered the two county design and both counties began purchasing infrastructure.
Prior to establishment of the EBRCSA, Contra Costa County expressed concern about the bidding process and the two county design. Contra Costa County sent representatives from the County Administrator's Office and County Counsel to review the Alameda County procurement process. They concluded that Alameda County followed an appropriate procurement process, and subsequently Contra Costa County joined the EBRCSA.
Contra Costa also contracted with CTA Communications to review the Motorola two county design to determine if there were any fatal flaws, and make a determination as to whether the projected costs were appropriate and reasonable. County Administrator John Cullen’s staff report to the Board of Supervisors dated March 20, 2007, stated “In summary, CTA did not identify any fatal flaws in the EBRCS design (they do provide some ideas for improving the system design); and they did find that some of the costs are reasonable, while others are higher than expected (CTA does provide ideas for lowering future costs).”
The EBRCSA Task Force also initiated a review of the two county design through the Department of Homeland Security’s Interoperable Communications Technical Advisory Program (ICTAP). The ICTAP review was a technical review that made some recommendations for the future build out. ICTAP was very strident in their support of the EBRCSA and stated in the report that “All regional agencies and jurisdictions must seriously consider joining the EBRCSA. While financial considerations may hinder migration of some users to the EBRCSA, their future plans should support migration to the system.”
As we moved forward, the EBRCSA Board requested that we hire a consulting firm to review the system design and evaluate how the build out of the system might be completed. Through a competitive process administered by Alameda County, a selection committee made up of EBRCSA members selected CTA Communications. The EBRCSA has contracted with CTA to complete the study. CTA has completed their initialization interviews with system users and completed a detailed design review meeting with Motorola with the final report due by the end of the year.
In his article, Mr. Borenstein was critical of the system design and its ability to serve all users. Dr. Ken Ballard of CTA Communications conducted the meeting with Motorola’s design engineers and was very impressed with the coverage and design decisions that have been made to date. While there are some decisions that still remain to complete the build out, Dr. Ballard did not recommend any changes to the existing build out. The goal of CTA’s current study is to provide information for the Board's use in making the remaining decisions about the system design and procurement.
Mr. Borenstein was also critical of the costs of the original proposal and the lack of a solid budget. The original proposal for the system build out was reviewed by CTA in the Contra Costa study, and they concluded that some of the costs (installation and vendor services) are higher than expected while some costs (equipment) are within range. Mr. Borenstein stated that the costs are $11 million dollars higher than they should be, assuming total system build out using the existing Motorola contract. The CTA report stated that, given that only one vendor responded, the costs were approximately $6 million higher than expected, if we were to purchase the entire system using the current contract. It is important to note that we have not purchased all of the equipment and/or services in the original proposal and are proposing to contract with CTA to bid out and/or negotiate the contract to complete the system build out. All of the equipment that has been purchased is currently being installed and will be used in the final system build out. The existing Motorola contract will expire October 31, 2008, and will only be renewed for one year.
The total amount of grant funding received to date by Alameda and Contra Costa counties allocated for interoperability is $20,705,332. The funding has been used to procure and install microwave equipment, upgrade existing facilities, as well as purchase equipment from Motorola. Approximately $11,900,000 of equipment and services have been purchased from Motorola using the contract. CTA’s report concluded that the overall costs, given that one vendor responded, were approximately 12.5% higher due to the cost of “Vendor Services,” which equates to approximately $1,487,500. Contra Costa has assumed some of the installation costs, which places the equipment purchases (CTA concluded equipment costs are within range) as a higher percentage of the overall expenditures. Given that Contra Costa is doing the installation the number is considerably smaller.
We are working at this time with the Bay Area SUASI to establish a competitive procurement process for infrastructure using multiple vendors. Given the amount of infrastructure that will be needed to build out the East Bay, West Bay and South Bay systems, we expect to see exceptional pricing.
Mr. Borenstein raised the issue of no “solid budget,” which has been raised by the Board as well. The second phase of the CTA study will include the development of specifications for the final procurement of infrastructure which will provide more defined total system build out costs. The work that CTA will be doing for Oakland will assist the EBRCSA in determining the operational maintenance and replacement costs of the system. The determination of system build out costs along with the ongoing operation, maintenance, and replacement costs will provide the detail necessary to complete the the overall budget for the complete system.
While there are savings that might have been realized if multiple vendors responded, the fact is that only one vendor responded and provided the two county design. The $20,705,332 of homeland security grants that have been received by both counties to date have been used to purchase infrastructure based on the two county design. Having the design has allowed the counties to utilize homeland security funds that would have been used for other programs and projects.
 

kb9sxk

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But this is RadioReference, where you must worship at the Motorola altar or be considered an outcast.

I've built radio systems using equipment from Motorola, M/A-COM, Kenwood, Tait, and others. I can tell you all vendors, including Motorola have issues. All of the above vendors can provide equipment that can be used to build highly reliable, public-safety grade systems. While some (including Motorola) offer proprietary technology, they all offer true P25 compatable systems and components that should be vetted in a competitive bid process when the agency is going to spend that kind of money. Competitive bidding doesn't necessarily mean low-bid either... Healthy competition is good for the industry.

--z


Shun the non believer!

Shun him!


:)
 
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