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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2009, 11:15 PM
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Post Jefferson City, MO - Tyco protesting Missouri radio contract with Motorola

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- Stalled first because of financing concerns, a more than $80 million contract to improve the radio system used by Missouri's emergency responders now is facing assertions it was awarded to the wrong bidder.

Tyco protesting Mo. radio contract with Motorola - Yahoo! Finance

Last edited by Thunderbolt; 03-24-2009 at 4:42 AM..
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Old 03-24-2009, 7:53 AM
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Maybe they just wanted something that works and not a sky is falling over priced never completed system?
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Old 03-24-2009, 8:13 AM
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Or maybe the Bat has better social contacts and it's business as usual in the halls of power - I wonder what consulting job the former governor now has....

It sure looks like the contract went to M with the expectation (nudge, wink) that they would buy the "optional" 30+million bits. I guess nobody but the taxpayers will care, and they don't matter, right?

Oh, and by the way, have you looked at what's happening at Moto recently? Care to speculate when they will go bust? My money's on it self-destructing sometime in August......
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Old 03-24-2009, 9:56 AM
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Default Catch 22

Well, I read the article.

First off, going with the Big M is going to cost more money. Going with the Big M is going to mean that there will need to be additional money spent on coverage patches. And the Big M has a quirky way of setting things up, too much depends on computers and controllers never failing. Other manufacturers like MA/COM, Harris, Kenwood, etc, are not set up like that.

But I would of liked to know what Tyco is selling. Is it APCO-25? Is it OpenSky, or other standard that is not "plug-n-play" compatable with APCO-25?

APCO-25 is becoming the standard. Many people make it, not just the M. I know Tyco makes it. It's open. It's showing up everywhere. It's easy to implement. You don't have to build a interface to integrate with agencies that don't use it. It really should be the only standard getting federal grants(Boy, that's gonna start some flaming). And if Tyco is touting something other than APCO-25 here, then if they do get the contract, I think the system will eventually cost more, due to the cost of bridging it with everyone else around it.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:50 AM
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The final cost is always far in excess of the contract bid no matter what it is, be it a radio system, road construction, a new City Hall building or a certain rather infamous deal to replace windows in New York City housing projects. (I know the contractor, heh heh.) Tyco is only using a bit of leverage to force a deal, it's done every day from Wall Street to Washington. <yawn>
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Old 03-24-2009, 2:55 PM
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As a Missouri tax payer, I dont have a problem with Motorola being awarded the contract. If I remember correctly, I believe the original proposal was geared towards Motorola anyway.

After the fiasco that other states went thru with Tyco, they can stay away from my tax dollars.
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Old 03-24-2009, 6:37 PM
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Tyco's just grasping for straws. They are good at that. Look at New York.
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Old 03-24-2009, 7:01 PM
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Does anyone know what the proposals actually were?

Someone in Missouri go file an open records request and find out what those proposals looked like. They should be a matter of open record.
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Old 03-24-2009, 9:14 PM
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I don't think you understand how trunking radio works.
ALL trunking radio uses computers, Motorola, Brand Tyco X, build the systems. Even P-25 does not have to be the same between manufactuers. Close but not exact.

When have you ever seen a trunking system from Kenwood that is not computer controlled? Even LTR and LTR-Passport systems have computer control in some form although not as sophisticated.

Brand Tyco X has not been able to perform in PA, NYS, with their sky is falling systems. FL has issues with their wide area trunking system. This from a company that cannot even keep a corporate name for a long period of time. Perhaps that is what they focus on rather than quality radio systems?

Motorola developed P-25. Motorola licensed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyandotte View Post
Well, I read the article.

First off, going with the Big M is going to cost more money. Going with the Big M is going to mean that there will need to be additional money spent on coverage patches. And the Big M has a quirky way of setting things up, too much depends on computers and controllers never failing. Other manufacturers like MA/COM, Harris, Kenwood, etc, are not set up like that.

But I would of liked to know what Tyco is selling. Is it APCO-25? Is it OpenSky, or other standard that is not "plug-n-play" compatable with APCO-25?

APCO-25 is becoming the standard. Many people make it, not just the M. I know Tyco makes it. It's open. It's showing up everywhere. It's easy to implement. You don't have to build a interface to integrate with agencies that don't use it. It really should be the only standard getting federal grants(Boy, that's gonna start some flaming). And if Tyco is touting something other than APCO-25 here, then if they do get the contract, I think the system will eventually cost more, due to the cost of bridging it with everyone else around it.
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Old 03-24-2009, 9:26 PM
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Radioman your right on the money.
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Old 03-25-2009, 7:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiomanNJ1 View Post
I don't think you understand how trunking radio works.
ALL trunking radio uses computers, Motorola, Brand Tyco X, build the systems. Even P-25 does not have to be the same between manufactuers. Close but not exact.

When have you ever seen a trunking system from Kenwood that is not computer controlled? Even LTR and LTR-Passport systems have computer control in some form although not as sophisticated.

Brand Tyco X has not been able to perform in PA, NYS, with their sky is falling systems. FL has issues with their wide area trunking system. This from a company that cannot even keep a corporate name for a long period of time. Perhaps that is what they focus on rather than quality radio systems?

Motorola developed P-25. Motorola licensed it.
I guess I don't understand the stuff about computers. Every radio is a computer - so? The stations, the controllers, the routers, even the scanner - a computer. In your car - several computers. Even that tacky birthday card that plays tunes - a computer. What's the connection? Why the big condescending post about computers? The thread is about Tyco protesting Moto's bid - which let's face it is a turn about for the books - normally it's the other way round.

As for the other points - PA (apart from the scanner folks on this board) are actually quite happy with their system, the reasons for NYS abandoning their system have been covered in excruciating detail in other threads but have less to do with the technical merits than they have to do with a very serious lack of cash, and the Florida system (again excluding the scanner folks that object to encrypted provoice) works very nicely for them. Actually, the Florida system is a great example of how Moto used exactly the same techniques as we are seeing here (low initial bid, then incremental cost increases) along with glacial progress. They were so bad that the state went back and re-bid it.

We might want to look at some other examples where Moto did exactly this - Virginia, for example, or Montana

The city of Philadelphia might have something to say about the Bat's business practices too.

Oh - and Moto didn't license P25 out of the goodness of their corporate heart - they were forced to by the Federal government who were sick of being screwed by a monopoly.

Bottom line - Moto acts exactly as any monopoly player does.
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:06 AM
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Default York County

York County Pennsylvania has a M/A Com P25 system on T band. It is 5 system simulcast P25 ip and it works GREAT.. We had a few bugs in the beginning but have ALL police agencies on line and working.

Don't mix Open Sky with P25.. Even Moto has made a few mistakes.. MOXY, Minitor 3, HT750.. all had BAD bugs outta the gate..

And Moto did not CREATE P25 nor did it LICENSE it.. They made an ASTRO P25 and they Licensed TETRA.. neither of which are P25 compliant..
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Old 03-26-2009, 9:29 AM
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Default Thanks for the grin

Sorry it took me a couple of days to reply about computer controllers.

Everyone is right. All modern trunking systems, regarless of who makes it, are controlled by a computer.

It's not that they are controlled by computers, it's how the system will operate when the computer, or power fails.

Some manufacturers trunking systems are hard-wired to act like conventionial repeaters on battery power when the controller dies, or they lose power.

Some manufacturer's systems simply curl up and die. The Blue Screen of death. MSPSC's was like that the first couple years. When one lone computer in our state capital died, all comms were on VHF simplex for three days. That issue's been resolved. And like someone said, regardless of the maker, there's going to be bugs, This was one.

Thanks for all the expert replies to my original post.
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Old 03-26-2009, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
They made an ASTRO P25 and they Licensed TETRA.. neither of which are P25 compliant..
ASTRO 25 is P25 CAI compliant, just as Tyco Electronics' P25IP solution is.
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