NY, Arrest of twitter user listening to G20 Scanner

blantonl · #1 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 11:55 AM

The man, Elliot Madison, 41, a social worker who has described himself as an anarchist, had been arrested in Pittsburgh on Sept. 24 and charged with hindering apprehension or prosecution, criminal use of a communication facility and possession of instruments of crime. The Pennsylvania State Police said he was found in a hotel room with computers and police scanners while using the social-networking site Twitter to spread information about police movements. He has denied wrongdoing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/ny.../05txt.html?bl

kc2rgw · #2 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 12:38 PM

See...that is exactly why 'we' get a hard time for having scanners in public. It's people like that.

Get enough notoriety and they'll just be banned outright. Look how far they took it when that congressman was eaves dropped on his damn cellphone. The re-wrote the whole communications act.

We have been lucky it hasn't been taken further under the guise of "Homeland Security"...my money is on it only being a matter of time.

tonyclark · #3 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 12:41 PM

Buy your scanners while it is still legal.

brandon · #4 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 01:00 PM

Yeah this type of thing always bothers me.
Just the other night I watched a program on Nat Geo about LA Gangs and they had a segment where the gang showed how they use scanners to alert them of law enforcement. You could clearly hear the LASD beeping coming from the gang bangers radio. It's only a matter of time

Squad10 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyclark

Buy your scanners while it is still legal.

In addition to scanners, don't forget guns and ammo. too. Truly the the last bastion of personal defense.

CHANGE is coming, and alot of it. The CHANGE is just not what the Obama supporters expected, as expressed on Saturday Night Live last weekend.

It will be interesting to see if the ACLU hops on board with Elliot's defense.

Forts · #6 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 02:23 PM

If this isn't a selling point for encryption I don't know what is.

kc2rgw · #7 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 02:27 PM

What really stinks with the digital systems and encrypted is even worse, is the damned delay to TX. You key up and it's a heavy one to two second delay before it opens for TX.

I'm glad I'm not working in public safety at this point because there were many many times and situations where I didn' t have that 'hold time' convenient to use the radio.

blantonl · #8 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:07 PM

What is fascinating in this instance is not just a few months ago our federal government openly worked with and championed the use of twitter during the Iran demonstrations. Yet, when someone here in the United States uses Twitter the government arrests him and searches his house.

Interesting...

MPSCS · #9 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:15 PM

I think LEO's are getting a little overzealous in Pennsylvania in some situations. But it also sounds like Elliot Madison is an extremest, bringing too much attention to himself.

MOTOROLANUT · #10 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:19 PM

Yes, There are Good and Bad people out there. Some Bad people use Twitter and My Space for the wrong reasons: Child Predators, Anarchists and Terrorism. The Government no doubt uses these sites to aid in the investigation and procescution of criminals. It's a small price to pay for the freedoms we all enjoy in this nation. I'll say this, Don't post anything criminal or anti subversive on Twitter or My Space and you won't have anything to worry about....

KF5DCI · #11 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:23 PM

Wow this thread didn't take long to go off base with alot of the posts.

How is what this guy doing any different from say one of us hosting a live feed?
Smells like bullcrap to me, betting the case gets thrown out assuming the guy has a halfway decent lawyer.

qlajlu · #12 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KF5DCI

How is what this guy doing any different from say one of us hosting a live feed?

Smells like bullcrap to me, betting the case gets thrown out assuming the guy has a halfway decent lawyer.

Yes, it may very well get tossed, but the damage is done for it has brought the fact that police radio is being scanned by ...wait for it ...non-police. In their cynical minds that is unacceptable and must be attacked by whatever means available.

Even if the guy is found innocent of all charges, it will still cost him dearly in attorney fees and court costs and the big red eye is brought to bear on the rest of us legally-scanning enthusiasts. We don't want and especially don't need the notoriety and it very well could jeopardize live feed.

N_Jay · #13 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc2rgw

What really stinks with the digital systems and encrypted is even worse, is the damned delay to TX. You key up and it's a heavy one to two second delay before it opens for TX.

No to get too far off track, but I don't know of any current system that goes over 1 second.

We can get into a whole discussion on the difference between key-up delay and latency of the audio, but that is further off topic.

mike_s104 · #14 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:58 PM

Just like anything else...it can be used for good or bad. It all depends on the person's morals and beliefs.

davidbond21 · #15 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blantonl

What is fascinating in this instance is not just a few months ago our federal government openly worked with and championed the use of twitter during the Iran demonstrations. Yet, when someone here in the United States uses Twitter the government arrests him and searches his house.

Interesting...

If the hypocrisy between the government's rhetoric on freedom and their actual actions fascinates or surprises anyone, then they have not been paying attention. And I'm not referring to just the Obama or Bush 43 administrations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc2rgw

Get enough notoriety and they'll just be banned outright. Look how far they took it when that congressman was eaves dropped on his damn cellphone. The re-wrote the whole communications act.

If we're all lucky, maybe a liberal democrat will try to do just that. And because of the toxic political environment our country consists of at the moment, the republicans may very well reflexively oppose this, cause noise, and eventually scare enough of the conservative democrats to side with them to kill the bill.

MTS2000des · #16 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forts

If this isn't a selling point for encryption I don't know what is.

yep, and a little media hype, spin and you have the perfect tool for justification of full time encryption of government radio systems. Elsewhere in the world, listening to the Po-Po is a taboo subject, and thanks to adoption of systems like TETRA, scanners are useful for nothing more than listening to amateur radio operators, aircraft, and the few business and private radio users left using analog FM.

The push for P25 makes encrypting easier and more affordable and much less headache than older legacy digital encryption available for analog FM radios. Motorola's Advanced Digital Privacy (ADP) software encryption available for the Astro 25 platform can be added for next to nothing...so yes, enjoy scanning as we know it while it lasts.

MTS2000des · #17 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbond21

If the hypocrisy between the government's rhetoric on freedom and their actual actions fascinates or surprises anyone, then they have not been paying attention. And I'm not referring to just the Obama or Bush 43 administrations.

Amen to that David. We've never lived in a "free" country, this is merely an illusion.

cfr301 · #18 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 05:15 PM

Heres the catch that everyone needs to understand, Its not listening to the scanner that got him into trouble its not even the actual dissemination of what he heard, it was HOW and to WHOM and for MAINLY what purpose that caused his arrest.

Your free to listen, you can tell a friend, the media can print what they hear, you can not however use whats heard for criminal purposes. Put the blame where it lays right in the criminals hands.

Lets don't get carried away and go Bang, halt, police just yet!

blantonl · #19 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

(....) ...so yes, enjoy scanning as we know it while it lasts.

Believe it or not, there are many public safety agencies that actually respect the public's ability to monitor them, so don't make assertions that our hobby will be dead on arrival by next year because one person gives us a bad name. Something like this happens every year...

I would conservatively estimate that over 200 of our live audio feeds are actually provided by the agencies themselves, and we are also in talks with larger agencies in hosting feeds for them (they've reached out to us.) Yes, there are some hard core agencies with misguided approaches to encryption, but a majority of agencies still see the benefit of not encrypting general public safety operations.

MTS2000des · #20 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blantonl

Believe it or not, there are many public safety agencies that actually respect the public's ability to monitor them, so don't make assertions that our hobby will be dead on arrival by next year because one person gives us a bad name. Something like this happens every year...

I would conservatively estimate that over 200 of our live audio feeds are actually provided by the agencies themselves, and we are also in talks with larger agencies in hosting feeds for them (they've reached out to us.) Yes, there are some hard core agencies with misguided approaches to encryption, but a majority of agencies still see the benefit of not encrypting general public safety operations.

Technology is evolving Lindsay. The newer systems make encryption not only easier but a part of the complete package. The Feds are pushing it the way they are pushing P25. It's only a matter of time. No it isn't going to happen overnight, but I am talking 10-15 years from now when newer more advanced wireless technologies such as P25 phase II, III, IV, LTE and IP make it's way down to public safety radio will scanners become pretty much a thing of yesterday.

I don't want it to happen, I enjoy the hobby part of it as much anyone else including you. As a telecommunications professional I would be foolish to say "it's not going to happen ever" when in fact, slowly but surely it is. Newer digital systems offer greater security, both in access control and in the ability of the general public with affordable hardware and software to intercept. The Motorola iDEN system will be 20 years old in 2013, that's not far off- and to this day no commercial scanning equipment is available to monitor iDEN traffic, nor is it practical, by the very nature of a cellular topology listening in is not only difficult, it's futile.

P25 phase I is already on it's way out to make way for the next generation of Phase II gear. Motorola is expanding their APX line with new radios which are targeted to replace their Astro 25 line, they are proud of these products (as they should be, the APX is a superb product) and the next generation Phase II is right around the corner.

I don't want it to happen, but make no mistake, that is the future. It's only a matter of time, and it will happen sooner than we may like especially in larger cities where funding is not an issue.