Milwaukee, WI - Police are suffering from "Communication Breakdown"

[Thunderbolt]

MILWAUKEE, Wis. -- While Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn spent most of his time in the spotlight asking that his officers not be furloughed for four days, the Common Council's Finance Committee essentially glossed over a report that the MPD has spent $17.5 million on a radio system that doesn't work and won't be fixed.

OnMilwaukee.com Politics: Police suffer from Communication Breakdown

[N_Jay]

Does anyone know if the City had a consultant on the project when it was first bid?

[blantonl]

With the quote that "MA/COM will no longer support the system" - I wonder if that indicates that Harris is going to EOL the OpenSky technology and brand?

I also wonder what that means for the Las Vegas PD openSky project. Last year MA/COM and the city announced the system was in final acceptance testing, but I've yet to see any indication the system is going to actually go to production.

[N_Jay]

I would think that it is NOT a statement of EOL, as any hint of that would be "Big News" throughout the industry.

My guess it has to do with "Free Support", being dropped due to beneficial use or some other contractual line being crossed.

[greenthumb]

Well, it wasn't big news when Tyco Electronics began announcing EOL on EDACS about a year ago. Not a big surprise, though, when most systems being bid anymore are P25. I would be very surprised if many more OpenSky systems are purchased for voice operation. They're more likely to be used for private data systems, which is one of the things that OpenSky actually isn't half bad at doing.

[Squad10]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

Does anyone know if the City had a consultant on the project when it was first bid?

According to Chief Flynn, M/A-COM was the design consultant "Opensky digital radio system didn't exactly go like they drew it up in the locker room."

MILWAUKEE - It was supposed to help emergency officials communicate. Now, it doesn't work. TODAY’S TMJ4’s I-Team’s Aaron Diamant investigated the Opensky System. The city of Milwaukee has sunk millions of tax dollars into a state-of-the-art communications system for first responders. Over the last two years the I-Team has tracked a series of setbacks. The latest one may be the biggest one yet. MPD's first live test of its new Opensky digital radio system didn't exactly go like they drew it up in the locker room. "After about a week or so, it became clear that we were having problems with dead spots and some operator problems that were certainly distressing our police officers and creating an environment where they felt unsafe,” Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn told us. So, the department pulled the radios off the road and will spend at least the next few weeks working with the manufacturer to get this thing up and running. “Certainly they have an obligation to get the system right, so we can use it,” Chief Flynn said. MPD is quick to point out that in no way will these setbacks put anybody's safety at risk, the officers or the public. They can still use the old system until the bugs get worked out. For now, MPD and Chief Flynn are stuck with a $15 million radio system they can't use. "He's got something that the city should have never purchased, because of the problems it keeps having and having and having,” police union President John Balcerzak said. City records show the project's deadline has been pushed back over and over again: to November 2005, then for another two months, then to June 2006, again to August 2007. Despite this latest delay, for now MPD has no plans to pull the plug on the problem plagued communication system. “I think we have an obligation to do our best to make this system work and give it an honest try,” Chief Flynn said. MPD isn't he only one banking on Opensky. The Milwaukee Fire Department, Health Department, and DPW are all supposed to hook up to Opensky so they can all communicate with each other on the same channels.

M/A-COM annouced the award on Oct. 22, 2003, don't know when it was first bid.

LOWELL, Mass., Oct. 22, 2003 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/-- M/A-COM, Inc., a business
unit of Tyco Electronics and a leading manufacturer of IP-based public safety
communication systems, was awarded a $15 million contract by the city of
Milwaukee to install its OpenSky network as the city's new communications
system. The OpenSky system, coupled with NetworkFirst, M/A-COM's
interoperability solution, will connect communications among all city and
surrounding agencies including police, fire and public works. In addition,
OpenSky's capabilities will allow these agencies to interoperate with other
local, state, and federal agencies with operations in and around Milwaukee,
further increasing their ability to respond to and manage emergencies.
"Milwaukee was in need of a communications system that offered reliable
and effective interoperable communications with other departments," said Chief
Arthur Jones, Milwaukee Police Department. "We are confident that M/A-COM's
system is the most cutting-edge technology available, significantly increasing
our ability to serve the citizens of greater Milwaukee."
The OpenSky system is a wireless private network based on Internet
Protocol (IP) that enables efficient voice and data communications between
municipal and public safety departments. All of Milwaukee's agencies will be
connected through the OpenSky IP network, enabling different agencies to
easily communicate. The Milwaukee Fire Department, for example, will be able
to directly communicate with the Milwaukee Police Department and other City
departments for the first time, improving collaboration among public safety
and municipal agencies.
"It was important for the city of Milwaukee to provide its public safety
agencies with what we consider the best communications technology available,"
said David Adolf, district sales manager, M/A-COM. "M/A-COM offers the most
capable and complete public safety communications systems, providing the best
in data and voice transmission, and true communication interoperability. M/A-
COM is pleased to partner with the city of Milwaukee in this effort to better
protect its citizens."
The technology behind OpenSky -- end-to-end Internet protocol (IP) and a
time-division multiple access (TDMA) airlink -- allows for multiple features
including:

* Digital and analog radio interoperability with systems of any type,
including those not part of the OpenSky network
* Enhanced data capability for quick download of data and graphic files,
including patient and criminal information and photos, to mobile devices
* Efficient use of radio frequencies by allowing four simultaneous
conversations on each radio frequency channel
* Global positioning system (GPS) tracking capability for increased safety
* Remote software reconfiguration and easy upgrades

The Milwaukee OpenSky system is slated for completion in 2005.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by greenthumb

Well, it wasn't big news when Tyco Electronics began announcing EOL on EDACS about a year ago. Not a big surprise, though, when most systems being bid anymore are P25. I would be very surprised if many more OpenSky systems are purchased for voice operation. They're more likely to be used for private data systems, which is one of the things that OpenSky actually isn't half bad at doing.

Do you have a link to the EOL of EDACS?
Other than the evolution of EDACS to EDACS-IP, I had not heard that.

There is no mention on the current Harris web site.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by Squad10

According to Chief Flynn, M/A-COM was the design consultant "Opensky digital radio system didn't exactly go like they drew it up in the locker room."

From the article:
"Police departments always get their clocks cleaned by salesmen," he admitted to the committee.

I wonder why he thinks that????

[AlabamaRS]

Originally Posted by greenthumb

Well, it wasn't big news when Tyco Electronics began announcing EOL on EDACS about a year ago. Not a big surprise, though, when most systems being bid anymore are P25. I would be very surprised if many more OpenSky systems are purchased for voice operation. They're more likely to be used for private data systems, which is one of the things that OpenSky actually isn't half bad at doing.

Do you have any more info on EOL for EDACS, we have a system here (pro voice) that is about 7 years old, some parts are older See Montgomery Alabama city & County LE.
Thank for any other info you can provide.
Paul

[kb2vxa]

After several failed efforts, the city is trotting out another attempt and getting an operator into the city-owned parking structure at 4th Street and Highland Avenue. It's the only city parking lot that also includes space for a restaurant and bar, a seemingly good idea given the ease in collecting fines for drunk driving offenses. What a grand idea! Now they can finance a radio system that works! That's fabulous Milwaukee's Finest, (cops or beer?) the girls are proud of you, we're ALL proud of you.

[tencom]

You must remember that Tyco no longer is the vender of record for OPEN-SKY, It is Harris that is responsible, as they purchased Macom division from Tyco in April of this year. And the City Of Milwaukee never had a outside consultant to evaluate the Bids in 2003. And today I saw two MPD
Officers and they both were carrying OPEN-SKY radios indicating system usage. And the mentioned
problems in the article to appear from earlier this year.. The only evidence of problems that I can see with OPEN-SKY is so far I see no fire vehicles equipped with OPEN-SKY tubular antennas as all Police vehicles now appear to be converted to OPEN-SKY.

[cpd38]

I don't want to start a p---g match over the Open Sky radios for Milwaukee PD. I don't work there nor do I monitor them.

I did recently talk to several officers from MPD that told me that most squads and portables are Open Sky radios. As far as getting them to work at all is a total different story. I heard everything from terrible audio quality to having no coverage in many places.

In fact one of the officers mentioned getting into an extended foot pursuit of a suspect that ended up with that officer fighting with the person. Long story short, dispatch did not hear any of the whole foot pursuit.

My understanding is that frustration level is super high and officers are needing to resort to using UHF radios so that they can at least communicate.

I was also told that many times officers can hear each other but dispatch is not hearing it.

As of now, their opinion is that it's a gigantic officer safety issue until they get the bugs worked out of it.

I know if where I work that if my radio didn't work most of the time I would be pretty upset. You get preached to about officer safety your whole career and if your lifeline isn't working worth a crap it can be pretty scary.

[Squad10]

Originally Posted by tencom

You must remember that Tyco no longer is the vender of record for OPEN-SKY, It is Harris that is responsible, as they purchased Macom division from Tyco in April of this year. And the City Of Milwaukee never had a outside consultant to evaluate the Bids in 2003. And today I saw two MPD
Officers and they both were carrying OPEN-SKY radios indicating system usage. And the mentioned
problems in the article to appear from earlier this year.. The only evidence of problems that I can see with OPEN-SKY is so far I see no fire vehicles equipped with OPEN-SKY tubular antennas as all Police vehicles now appear to be converted to OPEN-SKY.

Figures, just another irresponsible report from an online rag.

[tencom]

Originally Posted by Squad10

Figures, just another irresponsible report from an online rag.

Isn,t it to badf for your sake the system is unmonitorabnle, So you and others would like 22 million dollars down the drain as not to interfere with what you feel is your right to monitor private radio transmissions which to me is a very selfish and irresponsible attitude to take. So quit with your self-serving insults. I have more respect for technolgy then you do. after all scanners also are technolgy based.

[Squad10]

Originally Posted by tencom

Isn,t it to badf for your sake the system is unmonitorabnle, So you and others would like 22 million dollars down the drain as not to interfere with what you feel is your right to monitor private radio transmissions which to me is a very selfish and irresponsible attitude to take. So quit with your self-serving insults. I have more respect for technolgy then you do. after all scanners also are technolgy based.

Uh, after your first post describing your observation, my comment was intended toward onmilwaukee.com

[mkescan]

Originally Posted by tencom

Isn,t it to badf for your sake the system is unmonitorabnle, So you and others would like 22 million dollars down the drain as not to interfere with what you feel is your right to monitor private radio transmissions which to me is a very selfish and irresponsible attitude to take. So quit with your self-serving insults. I have more respect for technolgy then you do. after all scanners also are technolgy based.

Hey Verne, why can't you understand that most people are concerned about officer safety. Your answer to everything is that everyone is just upset they won't be able to monitor MPD anymore.
You keep talking about what you have seen, have you ever monitored MPD to hear how bad the problem is?

I love scanning, but could care less if I won't be able to monitor MPD anymore. I want whats best for the city I have lived in all my life, and want officers to have radios & and system that dispatchers and other officers & firefighters can actually hear each others.
I have heard some pretty scary foot chases and officer assist this year where the officer stops transmitting for a minute or more, or radio cuts out and sounds so bad nobody can understand. The latest was at a multiple shooting with a big angry crowd forming and half of the time the cops thought they were transmitting but nobody ever heard them.
I can't tell you how many times I heard " these radios ain't working" or " I can't understand you..try again"

[greenthumb]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

Do you have a link to the EOL of EDACS?
Other than the evolution of EDACS to EDACS-IP, I had not heard that.

There is no mention on the current Harris web site.

No links, but they've stopped development on EDACS-IP and circuit-swiched EDACS. They're both on the way out and the clock is ticking before support from Harris ends (6-ish years?). Apparently they had some internal discussions on whether or not to continue development of EDACS on the EDACS-IP platform since they wanted to move away from the circuit-switched version. In the end, they decided that since the marketplace is looking for P25 systems, they would stop moving forward with developing EDACS (smart business decision, IMO) to focus on P25. Now their sales force sounds like Motorola did when they were trying to get people off of Smartnet and SmartZone, and that was one of their selling points against Motorola for many years.

Basically, you can put EDACS in the same boat with Motorola Smartnet and SmartZone - you won't see new development of them and you won't hear about new systems shipped. They'll still be out there hung together, but they'll go away one by one. It was only a matter of time before that happened.

[ScannerDude244]

YouTube - Milwaukee Opensky Radio Systems Doesnt Work - TMJ4 - Nov 2008

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by greenthumb

No links, but they've stopped development on EDACS-IP and circuit-swiched EDACS. They're both on the way out and the clock is ticking before support from Harris ends (6-ish years?). Apparently they had some internal discussions on whether or not to continue development of EDACS on the EDACS-IP platform since they wanted to move away from the circuit-switched version. In the end, they decided that since the marketplace is looking for P25 systems, they would stop moving forward with developing EDACS (smart business decision, IMO) to focus on P25. Now their sales force sounds like Motorola did when they were trying to get people off of Smartnet and SmartZone, and that was one of their selling points against Motorola for many years.

Basically, you can put EDACS in the same boat with Motorola Smartnet and SmartZone - you won't see new development of them and you won't hear about new systems shipped. They'll still be out there hung together, but they'll go away one by one. It was only a matter of time before that happened.

If you say so, but I am not convinced.

This industry loves its rumors.

[tencom]

Originally Posted by mkescan

Hey Verne, why can't you understand that most people are concerned about officer safety. Your answer to everything is that everyone is just upset they won't be able to monitor MPD anymore.
You keep talking about what you have seen, have you ever monitored MPD to hear how bad the problem is?

I love scanning, but could care less if I won't be able to monitor MPD anymore. I want whats best for the city I have lived in all my life, and want officers to have radios & and system that dispatchers and other officers & firefighters can actually hear each others.
I have heard some pretty scary foot chases and officer assist this year where the officer stops transmitting for a minute or more, or radio cuts out and sounds so bad nobody can understand. The latest was at a multiple shooting with a big angry crowd forming and half of the time the cops thought they were transmitting but nobody ever heard them.
I can't tell you how many times I heard " these radios ain't working" or " I can't understand you..try again"

Please quote official sources and not hear-say information so far I have not heard anything from the media recently and if officers were so disatisfied with open-sky why haven't the Police union been up in arms about the situation that would be a great media event as TV stations would love that kind of story "ARE POLICE OFFICERS LIVES IN DANGER" I agree there most likely are still dead spots to be sorted out and may take months to rectify. As one MPD communication employee told me in 2007 when asked about about the delay in deployment of OPEN-SKY he answered "OPEN-SKY is a very complex system and lot of things have to be worked out".Since the portable units started to be deployed in early May of this year, and with a 95% reliability factor 95% of time apparently that specification has as yet to be met so the continuation Of KSA536 until that time you can enjoy listening to the analog mode I believe the 95% reliability requirement level would be higher then any previous MPD communication system.