Lapeer, MI - Voters say 'no' to E-911 upgrade

[Thunderbolt]

LAPEER, Mich. — The $16.1 million proposal to upgrade the county's Central Disptach E-911 analog system to digital failed at the polls by a slim 313 votes, say unofficial results released by the Lapeer County Clerk's office.

Voters say ‘no’ to E-911 upgrade

[MtnBiker2005]

County Proposal E 9-1-1 Central Dispatch Equipment Proposition
Totals:
3,949 = YES
4,262 = NO
Look at the PDF file for more detail stats.
http://www.county.lapeer.org/Clerk/U...%2011.3.09.pdf

Click on "UNOFFICIAL RESULTS SPECIAL ELECTION November 3, 2009" for the above PDF file.
http://www.county.lapeer.org/Clerk/index.html


Link to first thread on this topic story.
http://forums.radioreference.com/com...em-up-vote.htm

[radioman2001]

I don't get, unless they are using tube radios, there are lots of parts around for most equipment made in the last 20 years. Sounds more like they are disapointed they didn't go digital, then continuing to repair their existing equipment.

[N_Jay]

Many older systems are getting to the point where boards and modules are no longer available.

Yes, most could be repaired at the piece part level, but that is neither cost effective nor provides the reliability required.

[Ray_Air]

Who has the money now or wants to pay more taxes/fees,etc for a new digital system? Digital is a scam used by manufacturers to just sell more radios.

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by Ray_Air

Who has the money now or wants to pay more taxes/fees,etc for a new digital system? Digital is a scam used by manufacturers to just sell more radios.

Tell that to the end users who are DEMANDING more and more advanced features. Digital is the only way to give them what they say they need. Clearly, you've never participated in a needs assessment.

[bigbluemsp]

They wanted to much for this project. MOst of that counties radios are newer XTS2500's and can be reflashed and go from analog to digital but the county wants to buy all new radios for no reason. They want to tear down their old towers instead of tearing out old equipment and installing new which is $$$.

Bottom line is this project should cost about half or less then half of what they are asking.

They are lying to their people.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by Ray_Air

Digital is a scam used by manufacturers to just sell more radios.

Hmmmmm, OK

Originally Posted by zz0468

Tell that to the end users who are DEMANDING more and more advanced features. Digital is the only way to give them what they say they need. Clearly, you've never participated in a needs assessment.

Yes, that is what I meant to say. Thnanks ZZ

Originally Posted by bigbluemsp

They wanted to much for this project. Most of that counties radios are newer XTS2500's and can be reflashed and go from analog to digital but the county wants to buy all new radios for no reason. They want to tear down their old towers instead of tearing out old equipment and installing new which is $$$.

Bottom line is this project should cost about half or less then half of what they are asking.

They are lying to their people.

It is hard to say without looking at the project, but upgrading 1/2 the portable radios may already be assumed.
Depending on the age of the towers there is a good chance they are no longer legal to modify or mount any new antennas on.
The codes for towers have changed and most older towers are out of spec as they stand.

[DaveNF2G]

I wonder if the ballot question was as misleading as the headline.

Are they planning to upgrade their emergency telephone system (which is what E9-1-1 really is), or their radio communications equipment?

[Ray_Air]

Originally Posted by zz0468

Tell that to the end users who are DEMANDING more and more advanced features. Digital is the only way to give them what they say they need. Clearly, you've never participated in a needs assessment.

The people have spoken. They don't want to pay for it.

Why don't you foot the bill?

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by DaveNF2G

I wonder if the ballot question was as misleading as the headline.

Are they planning to upgrade their emergency telephone system (which is what E9-1-1 really is), or their radio communications equipment?

The project seems to be (from following the links in the original article) a radio and microwave system replacement to bring them onto the statewide system.

Yes, it is confusing, but common nomenclature for public safety communications systems seems to have devolved to "911 system".

[PCTEK]

The county where I live (San Mateo, California) and one city made the change to digital. After more promisses from Motorola than they care to count to fix the system, the City of Redwood went back to thier analog frequencies and are just fine with it. The digital system still gives Sherriff and EMS a headache. The sound is poor, and the data stream is often corrupted. (many 10-9 requests)

Information security is not really a factor for the move here to digital. Sensitive data is transmitted over the MDT's in each vehicle.

Look what happened when TV switched to digital... The majority of house holds with antenna's (indoor or or outdoor) found they could no longer receive the digital signal (yes they had either a digital ready TV or a DTV converter). Moving to a "Direct Line of Sight" signal type is great for large flat terrain, but for congested cities, the gains dont justify the costs.

Instead, we should demand theat VoIP carriers install the electronics so that 911 calls placed by cell phone or VoIP phones are directed to the proper agency and not to the local state police who then transfer the call. The FCC made this law, but somehow it's not enforced.

[b7spectra]

If you read all about what Motorola does, is they will sell a 4 site DTRS system to the agency. Afterwards, they tell the agency that a 4 site system won't work and that they need 2 additional sites to make it work. This also requires more time to search out appropriate sites and the request for new towers, even though the existing towers are within specs. Then you have to look at the equipment. An XTS portable sells for 50-75% more than a EFJohnson unit. (before you bash the EFJ units, they are almost 100% Motorola except they have EFJ on them - Same battery, knobs, antenna, microphone connectors, etc). Even though the agency has a sign contract to install the system for $XXmillion, Motorola pretty much won't finish work on the system that the contract calls for until they get more $$$. Don't believe it? Check with your local jurisdiction - open records laws work wonders.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by b7spectra

If you read all about what Motorola does, is they will sell a 4 site DTRS system to the agency. Afterwards, they tell the agency that a 4 site system won't work and that they need 2 additional sites to make it work. This also requires more time to search out appropriate sites and the request for new towers, even though the existing towers are within specs. Then you have to look at the equipment. An XTS portable sells for 50-75% more than a EFJohnson unit. (before you bash the EFJ units, they are almost 100% Motorola except they have EFJ on them - Same battery, knobs, antenna, microphone connectors, etc). Even though the agency has a sign contract to install the system for $XXmillion, Motorola pretty much won't finish work on the system that the contract calls for until they get more $$$. Don't believe it? Check with your local jurisdiction - open records laws work wonders.

Wow, Really?

How do they have so many good customers after all these years of doing all these things?

AND . . . You had better ask EFJ before you start making claims about them not building their own equipment.

[ibagli]

Originally Posted by PCTEK

Look what happened when TV switched to digital... The majority of house holds with antenna's (indoor or or outdoor) found they could no longer receive the digital signal (yes they had either a digital ready TV or a DTV converter).

So more than half of houses that rely on terrestrial television lost their signals completely? That's some pretty poor planning on the part of the broadcasters, putting their transmitters in such a place that more than half their market is in the fringes.

Obviously, even if it's a totally made up statistic used to bolster a flawed analogy, that means that every public safety agency needs to go back to low band simplex right now! Get rid of this high band... I mean UHF... I mean trunking... I mean digital scam. It's clear that they're bad because I have to buy a new scan... I mean because those agencies are getting ripped off bad.

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by Ray_Air

The people have spoken. They don't want to pay for it.

Why don't you foot the bill?

You completely missed my point. If digital radios are a scam, it's not a scam of the manufacturers making. It's the end users demanding features from the manufacturers, not the manufactures demanding that users use their products or else.

I'll withhold judgment as to how important some of those features are - I'm not the guy out there getting shot at. And I suspect you're not either.

[DaveNF2G]

Originally Posted by PCTEK

Instead, we should demand theat VoIP carriers install the electronics so that 911 calls placed by cell phone or VoIP phones are directed to the proper agency and not to the local state police who then transfer the call. The FCC made this law, but somehow it's not enforced.

Non sequitur. What does VOIP 9-1-1 service have to do with 2-way radio systems?