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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2011, 12:12 AM
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Default Indianapolis - IN - High Tech Burglary Ring uses Scanner Radio App and RadioReference

Indy Police Bust High-Tech Burglary Ring, Suspects Used iPhone Apps To Elude Police

Video:
Police Bust High-Tech Burglary Ring - Video - WRTV Indianapolis

Story:
Indy Police Bust High-Tech Burglary Ring - Indiana News Story - WRTV Indianapolis
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Old 02-27-2011, 2:19 AM
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hopefully law makers dont try and make new laws against scanners, scanner apps becuase of this...
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Old 02-27-2011, 2:47 AM
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From the article:

Quote:
"They used an iPhone app to monitor police radio scanner traffic," said Sgt. Paul Thompson, Indianapolis Metro Police spokesman. "They used two-way radios and their cell phones of course. They did a lot of intelligence and counter intelligence when they were involved in these crimes."

Police said the ring targeted taverns and commercial businesses. The day before a break-in, one suspect would go inside the business and determine the location of the safe or the cash drawers.

That suspect would then secretly cut the wires to the burglar alarm and security system, police said. The following day, the burglars would return with power tools and cut open ATM machines or the safe.

In many cases, the suspects used counter surveillance measures in an effort to determine if police were following them, police said.
I don't see anything that mentions RR specifically.
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Old 02-27-2011, 8:07 AM
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And yet the police caught them anyway. It doesn't seem to me that "scanners" are much of a threat to effective law enforcement.
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Old 02-27-2011, 8:20 AM
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Those that have experience in law enforcement and those that have extensive monitoring experience will tell you that a very small percentage of burglary suspects are caught in the act. Reducing the probability of being caught in the act is the only advantage a scanner will provide.

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Old 02-27-2011, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
From the article:



I don't see anything that mentions RR specifically.

They don't in article but they show it in the video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc0usq View Post
hopefully law makers dont try and make new laws against scanners, scanner apps becuase of this...
They also used radios so It wouldn't have matter they was determined to listen no matter what..

Last edited by K9JRF; 02-27-2011 at 9:21 AM..
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:50 AM
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From the article:
"Police arrested Warrick Markey, 37, and Gregory Greer, 27, both of Indianapolis. They each face multiple charges of burglary and conspiracy to commit burglary. Police said they found burglary tools and two-way radios during a search of Greer's home."

Not questioning their guilt or innocence but I've always thought the term burglary tools was pretty vague. I'm pretty sure the police would find the same stuff if they searched my house...
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Old 02-27-2011, 5:03 PM
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And people wonder why PD's, EMS and FD's are going encrypted.
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Old 02-27-2011, 5:48 PM
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A scanner can not out run a radio system.
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Old 02-27-2011, 6:46 PM
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A shame for the hobby...
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Old 02-27-2011, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinzep491 View Post
A shame for the hobby...
That's almost like saying that when a perp uses a gun and a car in the
commission of a crime, it's a shame for automobile fans
and gun collectors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc0usq View Post
hopefully law makers dont try and make new laws against scanners, scanner apps becuase of this...
Shall we not also outlaw cell phones because they are or can be
used in the commission of a crime?

They could have just as easily had a buddy sitting at home,
monitoring a scanner and relaying any pertinent transmissions
to the burglars via cell phone.
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Last edited by mikepdx; 02-27-2011 at 7:12 PM..
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:16 PM
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These were not hobbists.

They are allegedly criminals.

Possession of burglar tools means tools that were used in the commisson of a crime not just tools lying around your garage. Your hunting rifle might be illegal to posses if you point it at someone to threaten them. Your hammer used to break a window to gain entry becomes a burglary tool. Is that understandable? It's not vague.

Encryption will be coming and this is one of the many reasons.

Use of a cell phone during the commisson of a crime can be an enhanced penalty ie: many states have laws prohibiting the use of a radio device to facilitate the commission of a crime.

I don't see how you can even concern yourselves about these low lifes being "over charged" If they broke into your home or your place of business or your car what you worry about then?

Last edited by radiomanNJ1; 02-27-2011 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 02-28-2011, 8:04 AM
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By the vagueness of what police are saying about the bust leads me to believe that they were just lucky, a roving patrol stumbled upon them or maybe a stakeout. Also the bust was more than likely as a result of good police work, such as viewing video from before the wires were cut. The police did have 6 months to work on these mutts MO, and all the hype about them being HI-TECH probably came about after the interview with the suspects.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the police love this type of story to get out so then they can make a case for encryption, and I totally agree that stories like this could result in more use of encryption or MDT's, but I have to say that any surveillance units watching these guys were probably not using their own radio system. I wouldn't! So it is kinda moot when you use a common scanner or app for counter surveillance. There are much better ways, and it would take a larger team.
My opinion about depts going encryption is that they shouldn't do it, it puts a wall up between the public and the police. A far better law would be making it a felony to use a radio device, cellphone, scanner or app in the commission of a crime, and a not VTL violation, with a mandatory 2 years added to their sentence, and not concurrantly.
I love when the police say they found burglar tools in their homes, anything even a kitchen fork can be considered burglar tools.
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Old 02-28-2011, 8:23 AM
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I love when the police say they found burglar tools in their homes, anything even a kitchen fork can be considered burglar tools.

How many of us have some sort of slide-hammer or pry-bar in our garages?
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Old 02-28-2011, 9:03 AM
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at first i was going to say another reason to stop all pol apps . but it seems to me the bad guys had a false sence of sec buy using there phone apps smart cops used there own teck against them. for every one that crit cops you will be the one to call for help i know i was once like that
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:50 PM
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I don't think anyone is being critical of the police? To me it just seems strange that the are not being very forth coming on how they actually caught these mutts. I still think it was just dumb luck, but I could be wrong.
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Old 02-28-2011, 4:02 PM
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This is the reason why I pad apps should not be made availble in the first place for streaming Police radio traffic.Just like the story said people were using this to assist them in a commission of a crime.Also they did say that in the video package the reporter said that the criminals were not only using a Ipad app for a Police Scanner but also they were using a Motorola 800Mhz HT.I wounder who programed this for them? Was this a Stolen MECA Radio? How did the radio get the talkgroups put in the radio? Did one of the criminals program the radio himself from Software from Motorola with a Key to the system for MECA System 1? What about the person who was ARRESTED in Kentucky for having a I pad phone and has a Ipad app listening to Police Radio Traffic. I have a regular cell phone when I need it that I carry with me when I am away from home.I do not need a Ipad phone with a Ipad App on it for Police Radio Traffic. Just another item to get you in trouble. If you get pulled over by a local PD, State Police, Etc for a traffic stop they do now have the right to "look at your Cell Phone, etc"to see what you have been doing and who you have been talking to" I carry my cell phone for what it was made for talking on it.I did not buy it to listen to music or surf the Internet while driving which is not legal in the State of Indiana.If I want to listen to music I will turn on my Car stereo. if I want to surf the internet I will wait till I get home.
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Old 02-28-2011, 5:12 PM
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You don't need a special app to listen to scanners on your iphone, Blackberry, etc... just a web browser. The app just makes it easier. When i check the listeners on my audio feed quite regularly half or more are on some mobile device.

I heard a loud stereo noise complaint go out one day. When the officer got there the stereo wasn't on. "They must have a scanner" I heard him tell dispatch. Yeah, they heard the scanner over the loud stereo...

As to my earlier comment about "burglary tools". I don't know why anyone thought I was worried about these crooks being overcharged. I was just commenting on the vagueness of the term. When I was younger I learned the hard way that if I was going to carry a baseball bat in my vehicle I'd better have a ball and a glove as well or the cops might call it a weapon.

Just for the record I am not anti cop. I have a great deal of respect for the men and women who pin a target on their chest and go out there to protect and preserve society.
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Old 02-28-2011, 7:49 PM
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One thing I didn't notice (or flat out missed) in this thread was any discussion about the complete lack of control an app user has over a scanner feed. Actually this is the case as well while listening to a feed via any method.

Most of these feeds I believe monitor numerous frequencies and/or talkgroups. There is no way for the would-be criminal to hold on a frequency or talkgroup. That alone in my opinion seriously diminishes the use of a scanner feed in the commission of a crime. The criminal would be far better off with a scanner.

Hopefully feed providers are for the most part responsible common sense type people that are not streaming surveillance/covert frequencies or talkgroups. It's also my opinion that no one should be providing a feed that is specific to one department, especially one frequency, without the written consent of said agency. I doubt that would be obtainable in most cases.

I'm sorry but I simply don't see the big deal here keeping my above comments in mind.
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Old 02-28-2011, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9JRF View Post



They also used radios so It wouldn't have matter they was determined to listen no matter what..
Scanners are already illegal in vehicle or in your possesion (when away from your home or property such as a business) in Indiana. These clowns "thought" they found a way around the law but the police realised what was going on and went encrypted during surveillence which defeated the perps efforts to monitor the police.
Interestingly to note that during this time numerous channels did become encrypted on MECA. . I doubt though that any fulll time encryption will occurr on all channels, very few crooks are smart enough to use scanners or smartphones to hear the police. And the fact there is absolutely no control over what is heard talk group wise on feeds it's really not a reliable way to listen in....especially for crooks.
I'd be more worried with how they got 800MHz radios and what was programmed in those and WHO programmed them. Thats not something just anyone can do. It takes someone with knowledge of all the system setup and the equipment to do it, and I doubt these two jokers were smart enough to do it.
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