Delaware County, IN files charges in connection to scanner app

[JoeyC]

Originally Posted by bamx2

Wrong. If it has a web browser, as all modern phones, pads, tablets, ect. do.... It can receive.

Wrong again.

(c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes

Cellular phones do not transmit (or receive)on frequencies assigned by the FCC for police emergency purposes. This is where this ends. PERIOD.

[usswood]

stop thinking of it as an APP...the device is now playing signals that are generating from the police, fire, ems....I have an HT that has a radio feature...is my HT not a radio also??

[canav844]

Originally Posted by cfr301

...it would only apply if the APP was installed on the phone and likely only if it was in use at the time the offender was arrested!

As I stated before my phone only requires the browser not the app in order to pull RR streams onto my phone. It's been on sale for several months now, and all major carriers have a similar phone with the same OS and browser, all of those phones would be capable without an app, the vast majority of the owners of these phones would not fall into the 10 exceptions.

This type of law is exactly why I'd be in favor of it only being illegal to have in the commission of a crime, then use a more broad definition of what would receive the conversations from police radios, and require being caught or admission to or proof from phone forensics actually listening to police communication.

[JoeyC]

Originally Posted by usswood

stop thinking of it as an APP...the device is now playing signals that are generating from the police, fire, ems....I have an HT that has a radio feature...is my HT not a radio also??

The device doesn't meet the definition of police radio as defined in the law.

[usswood]

Originally Posted by JoeyC

The device doesn't meet the definition of police radio as defined in the law.

maybe from the West coast is doesnt...but in Indiana it does...."police radio" is a generic term used to describe what the devise is doin...its receiving police signals, therefore its consider a police radio...just like a scanner would fall into this catagory...my HT can receive police frequencies, but its not considered a police radio..sure it is, when I turn to a police Freq..just like an APP DOES...granted you have no control over what Freq the APP is tuned to, but if ur listening to a police broadcast, weather an APP or through the Browser, outside your home your breaking Indiana LAW!

[cfr301]

Originally Posted by canav844

As I stated before my phone only requires the browser not the app in order to pull RR streams onto my phone. It's been on sale for several months now, and all major carriers have a similar phone with the same OS and browser, all of those phones would be capable without an app, the vast majority of the owners of these phones would not fall into the 10 exceptions.

This type of law is exactly why I'd be in favor of it only being illegal to have in the commission of a crime, then use a more broad definition of what would receive the conversations from police radios, and require being caught or admission to or proof from phone forensics actually listening to police communication.

I think in the case of a website usage, they would have to PROVE the offender was using the Phone on a site like RR at the time of the crime or evasion of the police for the law to be used to charge the offender. Thats why the Ohio Law is more practical, its a catch all you use a hammer to break into a business its a criminal tool. Use a cell phone to escape the police its a criminal tool app or no app even if your calling someone to help you escape its still a criminal tool.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by usswood

my HT can receive police frequencies, but its not considered a police radio..

I suggest you read the law again, posted right at the top. If your radio IS CAPABLE OF receiving police frequencies, it is banned.

[usswood]

Originally Posted by rdale

I suggest you read the law again, posted right at the top. If your radio IS CAPABLE OF receiving police frequencies, it is banned.

I have read the law, I live in this STATE, quite familiar with this law, because I had to explain it once to a couple of LEOs that didnt understand it!

I have an exemption so it doesnt apply to me!

Might I add...lets all wait and see what happens, then we can debate the disposition of the case after a JUDGE has ruled on it!

[Confuzzled]

The focus on the word 'capable' brings to mind the old crystal controlled scanners. If they didn't have any crystals for police channels, were they still 'capable' of receiving police traffic?

Then to the early programmable scanners like my Bearcat BC560XLT, if they didn't have any police channels programmed, were they 'capable' of receiving police traffic?

And we've had the discussion before about assigned use frequencies. At one time, frequencies were more or less assigned by public service. Certain frequencies were assigned for police nationwide by the FCC. Others were used for fire, others for medical, etc. Those types of assignments have pretty gone out the window now and services are using whatever they can in their area.

So now, if you have a trunk group programmed in your scanner, is it 'capable' of receiving police traffic even if you have certain talk groups deleted?

Is a cell/smart phone only 'capable' if it has the app installed?

What about a notebook/laptop installed on a mobile mount/docking station with web browser page open to a RR live Audio feed page?

[rdale]

Originally Posted by usswood

I have read the law, I live in this STATE, quite familiar with this law, because I had to explain it once to a couple of LEOs that didnt understand it!

So you're telling me the above line about "capable of" was inserted maliciously by the original poster? Strange, because I've seen it posted that way dozens of times. Your HT is CAPABLE OF receiving police frequencies, so it is illegal.

[venom6733]

"The law does not apply to radios "designed for use only in a dwelling" and is generally only applied to portable devices."

I wonder what they would consider a BCD 996T? I own one but ive never used it my car and it stays at my home....but technically its not "designed for use only in a dwelling" as it comes with mobile wiring and tools to install in about any automobile

[holeinace]

I might as well chime in as well. There are a lot of things that are illegal yet people do them when not in police presence. Once those things are done in front of police there is a problem. My point is simple. Do not use a scanner, phone app, internet or anything else to aid in committing a crime.

[W9BU]

Holeinace, you have an interesting perspective on the situation. I can't recall ever being questioned by a police officer about the radios, receivers and transceivers, in my vehicle. I don't pretend to know what goes through the mind of every police officer, but I'd like to think that they never observed me using my radios in the commission of a crime. There was one time when I was stopped for speeding and had a amateur radio transciever sitting on the seat next to me in plain site. The police officer didn't even ask about it.

My take away from all this is that unless I happen to be committing a crime while using a scanner app, I'm probably not going to get in trouble for having such an app on my phone. In the scenario of me sitting in a getaway car listening to a scanner app on my phone while my buddies hold up a liquor store, I'm likely to get busted for having a scanner app on my phone.

However, what is more likely to happen is that the state legislature will address this issue somehow. If they go after the scanner apps, how would they write the law in a manner that can't be easily misconstrued? On the other hand, what if they go after the scanner feeds that are carrying police radio traffic? That would be an interesting situation.

[jefbrehar]

Police scanner apps illegal in Indiana - 13 WTHR

[Confuzzled]

All the news stories do is call attention to this so more dirtbags will start using it which will prompt any loopholes in laws to be closed.

[jefbrehar]

Originally Posted by Confuzzled

All the news stories do is call attention to this so more dirtbags will start using it which will prompt any loopholes in laws to be closed.

I just hope they don't start on our live feeds. That would be a bummer.

[JoeyC]

Originally Posted by usswood

maybe from the West coast is doesnt...but in Indiana it does...."police radio" is a generic term used to describe what the devise is doin...its receiving police signals, therefore its consider a police radio...just like a scanner would fall into this catagory...my HT can receive police frequencies, but its not considered a police radio..sure it is, when I turn to a police Freq..just like an APP DOES...granted you have no control over what Freq the APP is tuned to, but if ur listening to a police broadcast, weather an APP or through the Browser, outside your home your breaking Indiana LAW!

Again, and for those of you that can't read. YOUR Indiana law is quoted at the beginning of this thread defining "police radio". This is not a "west coast" thing nor an Indiana thing. Your smartphone does not transmit or receive on any FCC allotted frequencies for police communications in Indiana, the west coast, or from the moon. The apps don't receive on police allocated frequencies either so stop confusing the matter. Read your law. Smartphone apps don't meet the criteria defined in your law (unless there is more than the guy posted earlier DEFINING what a police radio is). You can fuss and argue all you want, but based on what the definition is, there is no case. Some of you would make terrible lawyers.

Your HT is irrelevant to the discussion as it CAN receive police frequencies and is illegal per IN law.

[venom6733]

ive also compared my ipod app scanner feed with a real scanner...and sometimes there is much as a 30-90 sec delay between a real scanner as opposed to the ipod app.

[Confuzzled]

Originally Posted by JoeyC

(c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes

Originally Posted by JoeyC

Again, and for those of you that can't read.

Your smartphone does not transmit or receive on any FCC allotted frequencies for police communications in Indiana, the west coast, or from the moon. The apps don't receive on police allocated frequencies either so stop confusing the matter.

I believe you're the one who isn't reading.

Is a cell phone a radio? Yes.

With the application installed, can it receive signals originally broadcast on police frequencies? Yes.

Under the INTENT of the law, possession of a cell phone with the application installed while mobile away from your home would be illegal.

[Cskib32087]

All police radios need to be encrypted.

I love listening to the scanner but public and police officer safety comes first.