Delaware County, IN files charges in connection to scanner app

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Agentblack

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Muncie police: Getaway driver used smart phone app | The Star Press | thestarpress.com

*note: the subjects in the story committed a violent act, HOWEVER, the part of the story that is bothersome is listed below*

.....in addition to felony robbery, police jailed Hale on a preliminary charge of unlawful use of a police radio, a Class B misdemeanor. Johnson said he believes a Smart phone with a scanner app would meet the legal definition of police radio in Indiana......

.......There is some question as to whether the application is even legal in Indiana for the general public.Indiana law prohibits possession of a "police radio." Although the law also provides 10 exceptions, including amateur radio licensees, police, and journalists.......

Going to be interesting to see how this play's out. If they are successful and charge these scumbags with this crime (crime as in having the scanner app), then does that mean anyone with the app on their phone can face instant issues with the police even if they ARE legal to have it? I can forsee some major legal issues coming down the pipe if these folks get charged as intended by this county.

Just a heads up.
 

GrumpyGuard

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After reading the law from the State of Indiana website I think the Officer may be correct. The catch all is at the bottom of the law witch states in part " (c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes and that:
(1) can be installed, maintained, or operated in a vehicle; or
(2) can be operated while it is being carried by an individual.
The term does not include a radio designed for use only in a dwelling.
"
I don't think the following exemption would apply in this case;"(7) a person who uses a police radio only in the person's dwelling or place of business

As a reminder to us all a cell phone is nothing more that a two way radio and therefore meets the criteria of being a police radio under the law if there is a scanner app installed.

This is just my opinion.
 

rdale

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It does NOT qualify because your cellphone is NOT capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on police frequencies. Your app is not a receiver, end of story.
 

GrumpyGuard

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Your cell phone is capable of receiving the police frequencies because of the app.This is one the Courts are going to have to sort out. The Law does not specify how your are receiving the frequency just talks about your radio of being capable of receiving these frequencies.

LET THE BATTLE BEGIN
 

rdale

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I doubt it'll make it to the courts, I'm sure it will be dropped prior. There's very little way you can make the comparison between "police radio" and "iPhone". Those aren't the same by any stretch of the lawmaker's imagination when the law was written, and that is what courts use to interpret (unless there is case history.)
 

kayn1n32008

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As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes...

Hmmm The Cell phone does not transmit OR recieve on frequencies assigned by the FCC for police emergency purposes.
 

GrumpyGuard

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The law is pretty clear by definition your cell phone is a radio. The application allows that radio to receive the police transmission. I think the law makers were taking technology into account when they passed this one. I am playing devils advocate on this one.
 

canav844

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As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio
We're all in agreement this applies to your scanner, ham radio, cell phone, wifi enabled computer, any wifi or cellular device, the AM/FM stereo in your car, etc.
that is capable
"having the ability or capacity for" if convicted there is then a precedent for ANY device that can receive ANY internet signal to be capable of getting the feed access from RR or a dozen other websites, my phone doesn't require the app, just the unable to be removed browser, my laptop doesn't need a special program, and I don't need internet I need only the capability to connect to it. This word makes a conviction here a VERY slipperly slope that will effect anyone that's got a smartphone or takes a laptop to and from work or while traveling through the state.

of sending or receiving

We're not worried to much about sending here in this case, though your phone and wifi devices are transmitters. What we're discussing so far is that your phone is receiving the police transmissions.

signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes

And this is where the whole case is hinged, the law states you must be receiving the signals allocated to the emergency services, while your phone is a radio, it is receiving only the cellular signals, not the emergency signals, because that scanner feed comes to you as a retransmission of an emergency signal over a different frequency that is allocated to a different band by the FCC. So legally I do not think that the case as presented in the newspaper article meets the criteria required for a conviction on this charge. When you look at how these technical terms are identified

and that:
(1) can be installed, maintained, or operated in a vehicle; or
(2) can be operated while it is being carried by an individual.
The term does not include a radio designed for use only in a dwelling.
As added by Acts 1977, P.L.342, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.162-1994, SEC.1.
Thanks to the growth of the aftermarket automotive industry in the past 20 years, "can be installed...in a vehicle" applies to just about everything nowadays.

When you break down the law, if you can educate the jury, this charge is very much dependable, and in light of the methodology behind a recent judicial action; I really hope that the defense comes through on this one before it's in a high court and a slippery slope decision is made.
 

Confuzzled

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And this is where the whole case is hinged, the law states you must be receiving the signals allocated to the emergency services, while your phone is a radio, it is receiving only the cellular signals, not the emergency signals, because that scanner feed comes to you as a retransmission of an emergency signal over a different frequency that is allocated to a different band by the FCC.

But you're still receiving the signal (voice message) even thought it's been rebroadcast.

This is one of those laws that hasn't kept up with technology. When it was written, no one anticipated cell phones ever having this ability. What is clear is that the intent of the law is to limit listening by means of any mobile device, regardless of the specific wording. The intent of the law is clear and the case can be decided on that intent.
 

W9NES

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Is a cell phone not a mobile device that can listen to Police Radio Traffic?? If the Cell Phone is using a app application to listen to Police Radio Traffic being fed from another source it is Considered a mobile scanner in the State of Indiana.
 

cfr301

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Well I don't know about Indiana Law but here in Ohio we'd just charge the offender with possession of criminal tools if the scanner (cell phone with app) was used in any way to evade capture or assist in committing a crime.
 

GTO_04

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Should it make it to court, it all depends on how the court chooses to interpret the scanner law. And should the charges be thrown out, rest assured there will be an attempt in the general assembly to amend the anti-scanner law to include the apps!

GTO_04
 
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rdale

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Is a cell phone not a mobile device that can listen to Police Radio Traffic?

Using that logic, then every cell phone in the world is illegal in Indiana, because it is a mobile device that CAN listen to police radio traffic.

So you tell me...
 

cfr301

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Using that logic, then every cell phone in the world is illegal in Indiana, because it is a mobile device that CAN listen to police radio traffic.

So you tell me...
Come on Mr Know it all...it would only apply if the APP was installed on the phone and likely only if it was in use at the time the offender was arrested!
 

rdale

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Come on Mr Know it all...it would only apply if the APP was installed on the phone and likely only if it was in use at the time the offender was arrested!

If you capitalize K in Know it all, why don't you capitalize the rest of the title?

Read again:

"police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes and that:

If all it takes is installing an app to change your cellphone into this definition of a police radio, then your phone IS CAPABLE OF being a police radio. The law doesn't say "If you have a police radio turned on" -- it says "if you have a police radio capable of being turned on."

So if you are claiming that this law applies to a cellphone with the app installed, then it applies to all smartphones because they are CAPABLE of having the app installed. And I say - hogwash.
 

cfr301

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If you capitalize K in Know it all, why don't you capitalize the rest of the title?

Read again:



If all it takes is installing an app to change your cellphone into this definition of a police radio, then your phone IS CAPABLE OF being a police radio. The law doesn't say "If you have a police radio turned on" -- it says "if you have a police radio capable of being turned on."

So if you are claiming that this law applies to a cellphone with the app installed, then it applies to all smartphones because they are CAPABLE of having the app installed. And I say - hogwash.

Oops my bad It and All ..feel better?

Pretty simple logic here try see if you can follow, no app its not capable of listening to police traffic without it. With the App its capable of being used to commit the offense.

Do I like the law or think its right..no! I like Ohio's criminal tool law much better because it makes sense!
 

bamx2

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Pretty simple logic here try see if you can follow, no app its not capable of listening to police traffic without it. With the App its capable of being used to commit the offense.

Wrong. If it has a web browser, as all modern phones, pads, tablets, ect. do.... It can receive.
 

canav844

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But you're still receiving the signal (voice message) even thought it's been rebroadcast.
No you're receiving the voice message not the "signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes" Those stopped at the "police radio" that is connected to the internet; the signals the cell phone are receiving are cellular and cellular only. The law as it is written covers RF signals not the message.

To put it on other more radio terms, if my local repeater rebroadcasts NOAA weather radio messages when there is an active warning (legal and I've heard a handful that do it with the ID'er over the years) that amateur repeater is not subject to the same rules that the weather radio broadcast station, and therefore isn't required to broadcast other emergency information messages, so the amateur radio repeater wouldn't have to stop repeating in the event of an emergency presidential address, that all broadcast radios (TV AM/FM and NOAA weather radios) are required to because the signals are on the amateur band not on the federal use band.

This is one of those laws that hasn't kept up with technology. When it was written, no one anticipated cell phones ever having this ability. What is clear is that the intent of the law is to limit listening by means of any mobile device, regardless of the specific wording. The intent of the law is clear and the case can be decided on that intent.
Agreed that the law was not written to forecast technology, but neither was the constitution, yet airports and seaports fall under much of the same 200 year old law because of how our constitution was written, yet additional laws have been passed to allow for upgrades in technology. The law should be enforced and ajudicated as it is written (until the State or US Supreme court level), if the legislature would like it to mean something different then it is up to the legislature to make that change.
 

usswood

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once the device, whatever it is, starts running a SCANNER APP, your breaking the LAW, I have said it once and I will say it again...the LAW says, sending OR recieveing...NOT BOTH....a scanner app on a phone, turnes the phone into a scanner...RDALE, how hard is that to understand dude!
 

rdale

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once the device, whatever it is, starts running a SCANNER APP, your breaking the LAW

Dude - you have several people here (other than Mr Know It All) pointing out that the words "scanner app" are not in the law. So you're NOT breaking the law. It's up the courts to interpret the wording at this point, so you can take a guess, but that's still a guess.
 
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