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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:46 PM
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Default Enough already!

I'll wait until we know the truth and everyone has quit claiming that they're the "expert" in the room.

Is anyone besides me amused by people boasting about how big their scanners are? Or goating about how much they know that we don't know? Everyone's entitled to an opinion or whatever, but some folks here are taking the GRE situation way too seriously. It's only a hobby to most of us.

A TV comentator said that we're entitled to our own "facts," but not to our own truths.

Let's get back to a discussion of the truths and stop the bickering and thinly veiled ad hominem attacks that have littered this thread.

I don't have many posts here, but have been involved in monitoring since 1961. Please don't call me a newbie.

I believe in saying what I think. If I've offended you: consider the message, not what my poor writing skills have produced.

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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blantonl View Post
In any case, you would be pleasantly surprised at the amount of resources and dedication that a lot of people in this industry have.

Stay tuned...
Wow! I hope this is a hint of some good news to come. Is there perhaps some silver lining to this huge gray cloud -- something you know about that will be announced shortly? I sure hope I'm not reading more into your post than you intended. We could certainly use some good news right about now!
  #203 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egulley612 View Post
there is no reversal of my position Lindsay. this stinks and i think there is more that you don't know about

It will be my mission to take my first 2 paychecks just so I can get an 800 before the supply is gone. wait for it......there is about to be an explosion of orders for the 800 too.

Lindsay, I have been in the scanner hobby for more than 20 years now. This GRE thing has the future of a uniden grant right now.
Did you or some of the others on here I've seen making comments ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, that Lindsey and others of knowledge know more than they can or are allowed to say right now and just maybe you should be thankful you're getting told anything.

Just because they don't blabber it all over the place doesn't mean they don't know more info than the majority of us out here.

Plus to put it more bluntly does Lindsey have to actually put it in 28pt bold font and all in caps that there is more to this story than can be told right now. Jeez even I've managed to pick that much up and subtlety is not my strong suit.

This is of course just my opinion but.......
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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 1:46 AM
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One other issue I'd like to know (but will nearly certainly not be shared, unfortunatly) is did the contract between Radio Shack and GRE cover the situation where GRE went under or otherwise stopped producing scanners and related accessories. It's quite possible that this situation was detailed and allowed Radio Shack to take over the manufacture of these devices (either directly or through a third party) in the event that GRE was unable to supply them in the necessary quantity. This may allow Radio Shack to keep selling their versions even if the GRE cousins are no longer being produced.

Such a detail may be a sufficient wrinkle to cause a delay in any announcement by GRE until Radio Shack has time to accept or decline such an option. Radio Shack may not have handled such a situation in their contract with GRE or could even, given the problems that they're having themselves, opt to not take on this extra role (and expense), but it just may be a way to keep the GRE designed scanners on the market.
  #205 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 2:02 AM
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 4.1.2; Nexus 7 Build/JZO54K) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.166 Safari/535.19)

Interesting observation. It's a shame that RS appears to already place a low priority on radios these days.
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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 2:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egulley612 View Post
HUH? I have never known that Radio Shack sold GRE scanners before GRE America. In fact, The pro-2000 series of scanners wasn't GRE

Huh? A lot of RS stuff was made by GRE, not just scanners.
The old Allied/RS SX-190 and AX-190 shortwave receivers were made, ~40 years ago, by GRE. It's on the PC boards inside the radio. The 2004/5/6 were, of course, made by GRE too.
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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 2:19 AM
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Well, I own two 800s and was looking forward to the 900, for whatever that's worth. Hope it still comes out.

As for manufacturing, GRE may be different but many electronics companies outsource the actual fab and assembly to China anyway so perhaps all of that could be picked up by somebody else willing to foot the bills. The existing designs are mostly good and don't seem to be too difficult to manufacture.

The trickier part is the R&D and IP going into the radios. Firmware, software, new products, etc.

I wish them best of luck. Competition is good for everyone.
  #208 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 2:22 AM
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instead of arguing over who made what,how about we all wish GRE well in future endeavours,regardless of how they move forward.whats done is done.its unfortunate,but this stuff happens.and yes,im a big fan of their products.
  #209 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 5:49 AM
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This is from another forum:

"GRE America was a major exhibitor at last weekend's ARRL National Convention at Pacificon in Santa Clara, California. Nothing that I saw indicated that GRE scanners were going way. In fact, we discussed their exhibiting at the Puerto Rico State Convention in January 2013."

GRE stops making scanners -- Radio Referencee

I have no doubt whatsoever as to the accuracy of the announcement from Wayne Wilson (especially since others have visited the GRE America office directly and received the same information), but it does make you wonder why GRE America would continue to man a booth at a major electronics expo, 12 days after being informed by the parent company that all scanner manufacturing would be shut down and employees were given pink slips? Why promote a product you can't provide? I realize they had probably long since paid for the booth, but it does seem an injustice to put all that time and effort in advertising items that you know aren't available, especially if they were still showing off the anxiously awaited PSR-900.

Maybe it was done to keep the "home fires burning," so that if/when GRE America can rebound, no one will have been the wiser that the company was in trouble. That may also explain why the website makes no mention of their impending doom.

I realize they are also the U.S. distributor of Alinco products and that they might have kept the booth for that reason, but I visited their booth at Dayton this year, and I can tell you that it was 95% scanners and very little about the Alinco line of amateur gear. The scanner line seems to be their shining star.


Just a thought.

Last edited by WA3RTH; 10-19-2012 at 5:53 AM..
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  #210 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 6:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windigofer View Post
The only other major complication with an open standard is getting licensing for the codec used--and quite obviously licensing for the codecs used for the vocoder in the P-25 standard is "open" enough that neither Uniden nor GRE have had issues (even for software-programmable DSP).
Codecs? P25 uses one codec - IMBE.


Quote:
That said, the actual companies holding the codec seem to be willing to license to third-party scanner manufacturers, and I'd not see a real issue with licensing what would be the effective successor company to GRE America to use the relevant codecs.
I'm pretty sure that DVSI is just one company.


Quote:
(Interestingly, the same issue comes up re Mototrbo and NXDN, and recently NXDN became an open standard as well--I'm not sure why Uniden never has gone for a NXDN-capable radio other than the standard having only being technically open since July 2012. The main thing will be whether DVSI would be willing to license a non-encryption-enabled version of the codec to scanner manufacturers;
Non-encryption-enabled codec? Codecs know nothing of the encryption layer.

And why would DVSI refuse to license their product? Are they eager to get sued?


Quote:
DVSI also holds the patent for the codec used for P-25, so I don't see why not...it's not like this is controlled by Kenwood, ICOM, or Motorola.)
You've gone from "major complication" to "never mind"...


Quote:
(For similar reasons, I'm really surprised that nobody has released a scanner capable of receiving D-STAR amateur radio repeaters;
It's because nobody cares. Do you think the vast majority of scanner owners have the slightest interest in D-Star?


Quote:
it's probably an issue of (yet again) not wanting to pay X amount of dollars per radio to DVSI for a license (yes, DVSI pretty much has ALLLLLLLLLL the codec patents used in non-cell-phone radio sewn up nicely and they earn a pretty penny for them) and because the only manufacturer of non-homebrew D-STAR equipment is ICOM.)
NXDN, DMR/TRBO and D-Star all use the same codec - AMBE. You make it sound like there are a dozen codecs that need to be stuffed into a scanner.
  #211 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 6:53 AM
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Default Enough Already

This is all a fact. Get with the program! Your not paying attention to the "real world", sir.

73's
  #212 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 6:57 AM
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R/S stores managers have no clue what is going on. I was in one store yesterday in Hartsdale, NY. They only had a few in stock and the assist. manager told me that they will be transfered to higher volume stores. This is a fact!
Hope this helps everyone.

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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 6:59 AM
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A member of Radioreference went by the office in Beaumont,CA and verified this and it is 100% true!
  #214 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 8:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghstwolf62 View Post
Did you or some of the others on here I've seen making comments ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, that Lindsey and others of knowledge know more than they can or are allowed to say right now and just maybe you should be thankful you're getting told anything.

Just because they don't blabber it all over the place doesn't mean they don't know more info than the majority of us out here.

Plus to put it more bluntly does Lindsey have to actually put it in 28pt bold font and all in caps that there is more to this story than can be told right now. Jeez even I've managed to pick that much up and subtlety is not my strong suit.

This is of course just my opinion but.......
Agreed ! I would say that just about anything that Lindsay or DonS say on the subject, could and should, be considered informed facts and knowledgable statements (read gospel).

I find it amazing that anyone in the scanning hobby could not know who DonS is and how much he would obviously know about GRE & RS scanners and what those companies might be doing.

So I put my faith and confidence in what they have relayed to us and look forward to some more "hints" about what is to come for GRE America.

As mentioned, they don't have to tell us anything, but they tell us what they can since they share our love of the hobby, but are still constrained by at least a gentleman's agreement that they don't blab everything they know.

Be thankful for what they have told us. I'm sure they will reveal what they can... when they can.

Last edited by pratzert; 10-19-2012 at 8:39 AM..
  #215 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 8:50 AM
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If GRE does finally fold, we will lose some future software written by a few of the members here on RR. Thanks in advance for your excellent work guys.
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Last edited by Highpockets; 10-19-2012 at 9:02 AM..
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by com501 View Post
If the equipment has already been liquidated, you can bet some smart guy in China, if he knew about it, bought it.

Expect that if they DID, a 'Swang Suie' model scanner may come out eventually.
Not sure how comfortable I would be carrying around a Swang Suie
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 9:09 AM
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Just a note re: the D-Star intelluctual property right...it is owned by JARL, the Japan equivalent of ARRL. I have seen Kenwood branded D-Star radios made by ICOM I have seen ICOM land mobile diigtal radios using D-Star protocol in an attempt to break into the US market (but not very successful). I have read articles in non-US amateur magazines on home brewing D-Star radios but they all required purchasing the chip.
Could a scanner maker bring to market a D-Star scanner, sure no problem, I suspect there is simply no market demand that woud cover the manufacturing costs.
Why is everyone so surprised at this 'turn of events' (what ever it is exactly).
The economy in Japan has not recovered from the Tsunami and the shutdown of nuclear power reactors.
The supply chain is drying up and it is difficult to get Japan made parts for assembly in a number of industries.
  #218 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 9:31 AM
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Default That is a shame that GRE shut-down.

They made some great scanners and other pieces of electronics. I still have their Super Converter 9001, and in it's heydays, it brought in the cell frequencies big time!
And now I know what "Not Posting" means. Trolls beware...
Hopefully GRE America, Inc. can take up from where Japan dropped out.
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  #219 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayi4cle View Post
Wow! I hope this is a hint of some good news to come. Is there perhaps some silver lining to this huge gray cloud -- something you know about that will be announced shortly? I sure hope I'm not reading more into your post than you intended. We could certainly use some good news right about now!
I am with you on this hope. I have been holding off buying a PSR-600, hoping the 900 would be making a debut. (Preferably with a keyboard available, but we all know about that topic.)
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  #220 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2012, 11:16 AM
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Default Sad Development

Well, this is certainly a sad development.

I appreciate our industry insiders (Lindsay, Don, the big retailers) keeping us informed. Thanks for that, gentlemen.

As far as the comments that folks cited about the cost or difficulty of somebody taking over production, most of what's been said so far is ill-informed. You don't have to build an electronics manufacturing facility. And you wouldn't WANT to. There are *tons* of contract electronic manufacturers with excess capacity who'll be happy to build whatever you want, in whatever quantity you want... from 1 to a million. Just send them the info (by email!) and they'll send you fully assembled boards. I am not guessing. I know this from experience.

To avoid the cost of re-engineering the entire product (which could be considerable as a startup), you "simply" need to acquire GRE Japan's intellectual property (IP) -- board layout and design as well as firmware. According to the info in this thread GRE America folks have talked about this as a possibility. The only question here is GRE Japan's willingness to provide such a license/sale.

Assuming you *can* license GRE Japan's IP, the NEXT hardest task in bringing this type of product to market is likely to be negotiating/renegotiating the required licenses that GRE held for OTHER company's technology. For just one example, GRE licenses scanning technology from Uniden. It is *very rare* that these licenses are transferable without permission (if at all). Again, I am not guessing. IP licensing is something I'm involved with every week.

It's difficult to recoup your startup-costs (so called NRE) for a complex niche product, in a bad economy, where the target technology (P25, MotoTRBO, etc) is complicated and continues to evolve. And with the scanner market, there are unique challenges that are too numerous to list.

So, we'll just have to wait and see what the future holds. Maybe we'll see the old GRE Scanner product line, with some changes and updates, under the name Broadcastify! Heck, I'd buy one just as a show of support! I'm sure that'll make all the difference in the success of such a venture.

Thanks again to the experts for posting... and my condolences to all the GRE employees (Japan and US) who have been affected by this move. It's hideous economic times we're living in.

Peter
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