Vicksburg, MS - City calls for meeting with state over radio

[Thunderbolt]

VICKSBURG, Miss. — Vicksburg officials want to meet with the state to discuss replacing a local radio system it shares with Warren County.

Read more here: City calls for meeting with state over radio | News | The Sun Herald

[rapidcharger]

Doesn't look good for the people of MS who will end up footing the bill for this or the first responders who will inevitably have to go forgo resources to pay for this system that the Mississippi Wireless Communications Commission is forcing them to join. Their current system is supposedly "At the end of it's life" I guess that was determined by a motorola salesman and not radio techs or system engineers. This is government at its worst.

I'm guessing the public will not be allowed at the meeting. Dissenting viewpoints from the people that actually have to pay for it all could be a problem for motorola.

[kb2vxa]

I can't disagree, a 19 year old system is pretty much at the end of its life with replacement parts almost made of unobtanium. Re-banding tells me it's an 800MHz system and if my guess is right the statewide system is also 800MHz as they usually are so linking with it shouldn't be a problem. All in all Motorola beats Harris hands down and Chicken Little adopted a new phrase, Open Sky is falling!

[ffemt601]

The MSWIN system is 700mhz and from the sounds of the article they want to purchase their own system and not get on MSWIN. Currently any radio communication systems over 100K must be approved by the MSWIN commission. I am confused as the state doesn't require any linking, but instead mandates that new systems must be P25 for interoperability.

[milf]

It doesn't matter what band your on, conventional, or trunking. If you get a P-25 system, it will work with very little hassle with another P-25 system. Vicksburg/Warren County is one of the oldest of the legacy Motorola Type II's in MS. The MSWIN is 700 MHz, Motorola ASTRO-25 P-25 Phase II. If V/WC upgrades thier system to an ASTRO-25 from big M, its an even simpler linking with the RSSI. Even if they went to say Harris for an P-25 system, it would still mesh with MSWIN. Heck LA, MS, TX, and AR are already linked with thier wide area P-25 systems vias RSSI, sharing interop TG's for emergencies such as hurricanes and the BP oil spill. Thats one of the reasons for the P-25 protocols. True interop! You will be hearing a lot more stories out of MS soon. There are at least 4 very old Motorola TRS's other than V/WC's that are at, or PAST thier "expiration date" and are barely kept functioning.

[rapidcharger]

I've lived through 3 direct hits from hurricanes in florida, and one unnamed storm that turned out to be of hurricane strength. If there's anything I've learned about communications infrastructure in a disaster situation is that it can't be relied upon. Any doomsday prepper knows that. The notion that there are going to be all these agencies that will want to talk to each other in a disaster situation and actually BE ABLE to do so is absolutely ludicrous. Not to mention Warren County is 150 miles away from the coast. Oil spills, hurricanes... gimme a break.

Even if there will be another oil spill or some storm that doesn't wipe out the infrastructure once every 50 years, why would tax payers stand for spending this kind of money on something that most likely isn't even going to ever happen again during the supposed shelf life of the proposed radio system?

That just doesn't make sense for the price tag. You can accomplish interoperability a number of ways even using that 1950's cold war era technology known as analog conventional.

And all this talk about radio systems making it past their expiration date... if it was anything else, that would be a testament to it's proven reliability.

I'm not against technological advancements. I am against wasting money on systems under the guise they will once day be needed for some once in 50 or 100 years event. Time to stand up and say no.

No word in the article about what any proposed system would cost but Warren county, including Vicksburg has a population of 43,000 and change. The median household income is $35k and change and the 911 center is funded by fees on people's phone bills. The overwhelming majority of the county is sparsely populated (or completely unpopulated) forest land. This is not a county that needs expensive infrastructure and more importantly it is not a county that can afford it.

I find it extremely disturbing that this forum of supposed scanner enthusiasts has such a vocal cheering squad for this kind of waste.

[milf]

OK you lived through hurricanes? Then you know its not a lil bitty one town storm? Hurricanes that come in from the Gulf of Mexico affect the ENTIRE state of MS. And also usually AL, and LA too. Then once they downgrade to TS and TD, they are affecting TN, AR, NC, KY, MO, and so on. Lets also examine that MS in the past few years has had Katrina, and at least one other pretty good hurricane, tornadoes all over, Yazoo County twice in like two months time, the massive MS River flooding that hit from the delta, all the way to Natchez.... The MSWIN was the go to system that WORKED for everyone post Katrina. Instead of everyone on five to ten differing systems and unable to talk to each other. Not to mention that if Warren County does go P-25, they WILL get USDHS Grants to cover biggest part of the bills.

[kb2vxa]

"If there's anything I've learned about communications infrastructure in a disaster situation is that it can't be relied upon."

Florida is not New Jersey, ours held up just fine through Sandy even in the hardest hit coastal areas. Seaside Heights is a shining star, it was virtually wiped off the map but the PD was up and running. Those with Tinkertoy systems should come here and learn how we cope with disaster.

"Any doomsday prepper knows that."

Oh gawd, I'm at a loss for words.

[zerg901]

Warren County population is 48,000. I bet that 1 police channel, 1 DPW channel, and 1 fire/ems channel would handle 99.99% of their needs. What would that cost? $250,000? (for all new mobiles, portables, and repeaters). Hopefully not $7 million.

AFAIK - 75% of Mississippi is still on VHF highband. So if the State is forcing everyone to go 700 mhz or 800 mhz - that would be very expensive.

Anyone know what they really mean by "compatible with the state system"? How could a 150 Mhz radio ever be really compatible with a 700/800 mhz radio (without a bunch of linking gear)?

I have not heard that P25 radios can resist disasters any better than non P25 radios. If you lose a tower - digital or analog - you are going to have a big hole in your system.

[rapidcharger]

Originally Posted by milf

f Warren County does go P-25, they WILL get USDHS Grants to cover biggest part of the bills.

M**f, you and I will never agree on this subject but can I just ask you where you think that money comes from?

This is why all taxpayers across the country should be concerned with these radio systems even when they are not in their own backyard.

Unnecessary radio communications infrastructure where it is not wanted and not needed is the same thing as building a bridge to nowhere.
I'm OK with bridges too! Just where they are wanted, needed and paid for.

[milf]

Anyone know what they really mean by "compatible with the state system"? How could a 150 Mhz radio ever be really compatible with a 700/800 mhz radio (without a bunch of linking gear)?

Yes, if the equipment they buy is P-25, it is easily linked through software, to any other P-25 system. Doesn't matter if its 150, 380, 400, 700, or 800 MHz. In TN the state will have a system comprised of VHF high, 700, and 800 MHz all linked via RSSI. Sharing TG's, which can also be patched to Fed/Non Fed interop etc.

[fdcaptjd]

Isn't the interfacing of P25 systems accomplished by the ISSI or Inter RF SubSystem Interface.

I don't understand how the Radio Signal Strength Indicator could be used to connect systems.

Regards,

JD

[milf]

RF Sub System Interface RSSI. Forgot to add the Inter. IRSSI. I have heard it called RSSI so much that I forget the other part.

[zerg901]

OK - the radios can be "linked" WITH a BUNCH of linking gear

[milf]

Bunch? Umm no, its done with software. A few keypresses, thats it. Most of the things radio systems do now is done with software. The days of having to do all your "patching" with lots of hardware, and programming are over. Welcome to 2012, about to be 2013. The age of VoIP, IP25, OTAR, P-25 Phase II (TDMA digital where you can now have two slots per tg, and two slots per frequency in conventional). Welcome to the point where if you blink, SDR will be the new standard for communications. We have scanners that do things that were said to be impossible just a couple of years ago. We have radios that can do multiple frequency bands at the same time, as well as both analog and digital at the same time, and oh yeah, trunking and conventional at the same time. If you had told me this would be possible now just ten years ago, I would have wanted to sample the drugs you were on. Now, I ask you, what can we do wityh the next generation of communications?

[DickH]

Originally Posted by kb2vxa

I can't disagree, a 19 year old system is pretty much at the end of its life with replacement parts almost made of unobtanium. ...

Replacement parts are unavailable because the radio manufacturers have decided not to make them anymore so they can sell new systems. Todays electronics are so reliable they will last many years longer than the old tube type equipment that lasted for many years.