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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2013, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by xmo View Post
iamhere300 wrote: "I would offer that most of the "push" you see for encryption comes from the sales force...."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You'd be wrong. Encryption is a growing trend in public safety communications. Scanner apps and radio sales people only help to accelerate the process.

For example, in the December 2012 issue of Public Safety Communications, The Official Magazine of APCO International, Inc., there is an article: "An Introduction to Encryption" which leads off "Securing your voice communications' and wraps up with "As public safety communications becomes more sensitive and sophisticated, the need for deploying and managing encryption becomes more evident." and "...the benefits of confidentiality, safety and security to the first responders cannot be ignored."
This is what I have been saying but so many in this forum want to minimize it and ignore reality. The reality is the subject of "scanner apps" is coming up more often and the answer, whether it comes from mouth of a Solutions salesman or a risk manager is that "E" word.

The unwritten "golden rule" of scanning was one doesn't publicly divulge what you hear. Online streaming and dissemination of recordings does just that.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2013, 8:51 PM
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...but at the same time, more and more agencies are putting their entire 911 dispatch information online live. So something doesn't jive.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2013, 9:26 PM
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...but at the same time, more and more agencies are putting their entire 911 dispatch information online live. So something doesn't jive.
Makes perfect sense, they are in 100 percent control of what gets disseminated, and can terminate such at anytime they see fit, redact what they wish- and limit who can access, say, by requiring registration and screening to login to a portal.

This is not the same thing as some third party streaming radio traffic picked up off the air, making recordings and profiting off them.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2013, 9:55 PM
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"...more and more agencies are putting their entire 911 dispatch information online live...."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is one more nail in the scanner hobby's coffin.

Modern dispatch CAD software is starting to offer centers the ability to disseminate dispatch information through social media. That means many interested parties can satisfy their curiosities on line. - No need to buy a scanner.

Streaming public safety audio does the same thing - eliminates the need to buy a scanner.

Couple these with increasing security concerns and affordable technology pushing some agencies to encryption along with the transition of much sensitive traffic to MDC's, you have a perfect storm - no need to listen or nothing to listen to = the death knell for scanners.

Sure - rural areas will be dispatching in the clear for a long time to come, but the impact of all these things combined with the "LTE" future of big city public safety communications will eat away the volume market for scanners.

Feed providers are just kidding themselves if they don't believe they are accelerating the death of the hobby.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2013, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by balibago View Post
Why in a world filled with so many techno wizzes can't someone develop something to break this ADP? And what's with this stupid streaming. If you want to hear California go get a plane ticket and travel there. Maybe in a way this is a blessing as only a few really endowed people will have the technical expertise to crack these less strong forms of encryption. Boy it would be cool to be the only one in town to be able to listen.
Same technology that can allow you you to chat with those back in DAU or any other place PARE KO without having to fly there!!! LOL
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2013, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ansul1001 View Post
The only reason that the police want there radios encrypted is so they can do illegal stuff and get away with it.
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Even encrypted radio traffic has be be recorded on the agency's logging recorder. If you that paranoid, then file a open records request for logging audio so you can check up on them.

Actually, there may be some truth to that original statement. Here in Southern California, all the Law Enforcement Agencies in Orange County are on a encrytpted trunked radio system, and they do not provide the media with radios (They took back the ones they had given to the OC register)

Outside of Southern California, few people may know that a number of controversial incidents have occurred in OC in the past few years, including the beating death of a homeless man at the hands of a number of Fullerton police officers. There has been some serious talk that had the radio system NOT been encrypted, and the public and media been able to listen in to police communications, that some of these incidents may not have occured. From some people I know that are 'connected' with Law Enforcement in Orange County, there definatly is a sense of invincibility among officers simply becuase no one can listen in, especially on secondary channels that are not monitored by dispatch.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2013, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fleef View Post
I think the REAL issue is it's just too easy now with the scanner apps on smart phones.
I don't agree. I'm sitting at work right now, within earshot of our assignment desk. We listen to HUNDREDS of frequencies, literally HUNDREDS. Just LAPD we're dealing with 21 dispatch channels, and 21 low power 'simplex' channels where all the good stuff happens anyways, not to mention Citywide Tacs, Metro, Aero, and Hotshots. 17 Sheriff Dispatch channels, and the corresponding L-tacs, C-Tacs, A-tacs, SEB, Aero, and Custody. Add in about 60 or so local police departments and their tacticals, 20+ CHP channels, local University PDs, and Federal, many of which overlap, all in Los Angeles County. AND, we still have 3 other counties to deal with on top of that. Show me a smartphone app that would cover all of that?

I rolled out on a breaker earlier today that started on CHP Gold, went to Brown and then to Blue, with LASD shadowing on Dispatch 6, and talking about it on Mutal Aid 4.

At least with the apps I've seen, most cannot select the divisions with a certain department. There was a bank robbery today that happened in LAPD Mission Division on disp 19, then the suspects were caught in Devonshire on disp 17.

For some one-channel department, I get it, but here in Los Angeles, there's just too much to monitor to think that streaming is a big problem.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 2:17 PM
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I don't think the entire system will be encrypted. The article mentions being able to talk to other agencies, so either those other agencies will have special radios just for talking to the sheriff's dept (unlikely) or they will have clear mutual aid/ interagency talkgroups.

I will be taking a look at the Riverside County sheriff's page to see if an app similar to ActiveEMS Phoenix could be written so people can remain informed about what's going on in their community. Sad state of affairs, this encryption garbage, but what can you do?

-AZ
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by riflemin View Post
And this department has refused to come out when hunters were trespassing nearby, firing toward my residence and my neighbors'.

I just wanted to clarify that the negative experience I wrote about in NO WAY has anything to do with the Riverside Co. Sheriff Department.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 3:27 PM
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I don't think the entire system will be encrypted. The article mentions being able to talk to other agencies, so either those other agencies will have special radios just for talking to the sheriff's dept (unlikely) or they will have clear mutual aid/ interagency talkgroups.
-AZ
A lot of Riverside County Cities are already on the ERICA system, which is encrypted. I tend to think what you're going to see in Riverside is exactly what you see in Orange County where all the municipalities and the county are on one system, and encrypted.

And, I would assume, non-encrypted agencies would have a access channel similar to what OC has (or like LAPD's access channel for outside non-P25 agencies)
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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lschmidt View Post
POLICE SCANNERS AND FAMILY SAFETY
A SCANNER IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOLS TO HAVE ON HAND IN AN EMERGENCY !!!

For many scanner enthusiasts like myself, a police scanner is one of the most valuable tools we can have nearby when disaster strikes! Why? Because critical and timely information is key in the aftermath of any major emergency, disaster, or other "large-scale" event. The only sure way to get timely up-to-date and critical information after a disaster is by monitoring a police scanner. Television and radio broadcast information is not a viable option as information via those sources is often delayed, sketchy, or unconfirmed at best. Besides emergency disasters, a police scanner can be a valuable source of information during other life-threatening situations. How? Well, everyday in neighborhoods across America, police and fire personnel respond to tens- of-thousands of calls for assistance. The majority of those calls for service are minor in nature, meaning there is no immediate danger to the public at large. On the flip side, there are those calls that do pose a serious threat to life and/or property. These range anywhere from power outages to severe weather,dangerous police situations including high-speed pursuits, suspect foot chases, neighborhood lock-downs for an outstanding suspect search ("suspect containments"), barricaded suspects, hostage situations, or even worse, an armed suspect on a deadly rampage. By monitoring the public safety emergency radio communications in your local area, you will get important information in "real-time" as events unfold around you. Armed with this information, you can take any necessary action to protect you and your family and even avoid unseen dangers before it’s too late! Now there are just way too many communities taking this away by going to unmonitorable radio systems.This is actually endangering citizens more by keeping them from knowing about ongoing situations in their neighborhoods.If there is any kind of a threat around,people do HAVE A RIGHT to know about it!!
Hey lschmidt, if you are going to use my content, then please give me the credit for writing it up! You took the above comment just about verbatim from my page at:

+ Police Scanner & Preparedness
http://www.police-scanner.info/emergency-preparedness/

Sheesh... ~SMH~

-RF
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 4:48 PM
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What a shame to read this thread only to find a bunch of bickering and other nonsense coming from folks who don't even live here.

It will be interesting to see how much activity starts to appear over the next couple months and what non RSO users are encrypted. I believe some of the county users will transition first if I am not mistaken. So far about 95%+ of the talkgroups logged have been fully encrypted. I've also seen a mix of encrypted and clear voice on the same talkgroup, but this has mostly been noted on the radio tech groups. I am going to assume the main law talkgroups are set to always encrypt vs user select-able?

It's always exciting to monitor new radio systems. Unfortunately it's going to be sad to no longer listen to RSO but we still have a lot of other stuff to listen to here in SoCal.
I'm with Brandon on this one. It sucks to be losing RSO as I live in Canyon Lake (Southwest Riverside County). RSO is offering to "rent" police radios with transmit button disabled for $75 to $128 per month *plus* and maintenance fee to news media organizations. I have press credentials, however, with the minuscule amount of crime (and then mostly vandalism) in Canyon Lake, I see no need to pay that much to hear RSO.

Still a bummer though. For now, scanner is still going. We will let you know when the scanner goes silent out here in Riverside County...

-RF

Last edited by sparkdawg2002; 01-04-2013 at 5:22 PM.. Reason: Spelling Correction
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 5:22 PM
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A lot of Riverside County Cities are already on the ERICA system, which is encrypted. I tend to think what you're going to see in Riverside is exactly what you see in Orange County where all the municipalities and the county are on one system, and encrypted.
Just to clarify, ERICA users won't be going on the same system as RSO. They are essentially a splinter group doing their own thing. It will be a long time before you see all agencies in Riverside County all operating a single system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Code20Photog View Post
And, I would assume, non-encrypted agencies would have a access channel similar to what OC has (or like LAPD's access channel for outside non-P25 agencies)
There will be several methods of providing cross platform communications. The obvious one is agencies operating 700/800 MHz P25 radios could have talk group access to PSEC. Agencies like RPD, who are on UHF conventional, or Corona on VHF conventional, would have a 700/800 P25 control station in their dispatch center available to patch to the conventional channels. There is also several conventional systems on VHF, UHF, and 800 MHz that provide unencrypted access back to RSO on a handful of different frequencies.

A lot of thought has gone into interoperability, so far as hardware is concerned. What I'm not so confident about is operational and policy planning.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sparkdawg2002 View Post
RSO is offering to "rent" police radios with transmit button disabled for $75 to $128 per month *plus* and maintenance fee to news media organizations. I have press credentials, however, with the minuscule amount of crime (and then mostly vandalism) in Canyon Lake, I see no need to pay that much to hear RSO.
This is a reasonable answer for those who argue that transparency is lost when an agency goes encrypted. It reduces the argument to loss of entertainment value.

Unfortunately for hobby type listeners, this is the trend, and there's not a lot to be done about it.
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Old 01-04-2013, 5:28 PM
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From the article:

Quote:
Briddick noted that maps that mark locations and types of incidents, as well as listing such incidents, are available on the sheriff’s website at riversidesheriff.org by clicking on the name of each station. News releases about major incidents and deaths are also posted on the website.
I took a look at this. Nothing on those maps is current unless I am expected to believe for example that the Sheriff's Department has not responded to one call for service in Lake Elsinore since 12-27-2012.

I could write an app to read this data but if it's not kept current there's really not much point in doing so. Sorry guys.

If there's a current public version of this data out there, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

-AZ
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 5:33 PM
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I took a look at this. Nothing on those maps is current unless I am expected to believe for example that the Sheriff's Department has not responded to one call for service in Lake Elsinore since 12-27-2012.
In and around Lake Elsinore? Not a chance!
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Old 01-04-2013, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sparkdawg2002 View Post
RSO is offering to "rent" police radios with transmit button disabled for $75 to $128 per month *plus* and maintenance fee to news media organizations. I have press credentials, however, with the minuscule amount of crime (and then mostly vandalism) in Canyon Lake, I see no need to pay that much to hear RSO.
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Originally Posted by zz0468 View Post
This is a reasonable answer for those who argue that transparency is lost when an agency goes encrypted. It reduces the argument to loss of entertainment value. .
Is it? Let me know how successful a guy like Sparkdawg would be in getting one of these radios with his official state issued press credentials. California issues these, I knew a guy who was a stringer in NorCal and had them. Let's see someone like him actually get a radio - I bet he gets nothing more than a run-around for his efforts if he tries.

-AZ
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Old 01-04-2013, 5:42 PM
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In and around Lake Elsinore? Not a chance!
Exactly. I had family living there and I visited regularly. The scanner was going non stop with stuff happening in Elsinore.So unless the new Sheriff's got a live CAD page hidden somewhere that no one knows about, he's blowing smoke up the media's butt..
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Old 01-04-2013, 6:28 PM
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Is it? Let me know how successful a guy like Sparkdawg would be in getting one of these radios with his official state issued press credentials. California issues these...
I won't be letting you know. He's just going to have to try it himself. I know for a fact, absolutely without a doubt, that RSO has issued radios to local newspapers and TV stations. Stringers? I have no knowledge of that. The idea is to provide some degree of accountability, not a level playing field amongst every news gathering entity that wants to play. There is no obligation to do so.
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Old 01-04-2013, 6:31 PM
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Exactly. I had family living there and I visited regularly. The scanner was going non stop with stuff happening in Elsinore.So unless the new Sheriff's got a live CAD page hidden somewhere that no one knows about, he's blowing smoke up the media's butt..
So, who is crimereports.com? Maybe they're the problem with the slow or missing updates, and not RSO.
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