Riverside, CA - New sheriff’s radios shut out public

[sparkdawg2002]

Originally Posted by AZScanner

Is it? Let me know how successful a guy like Sparkdawg would be in getting one of these radios with his official state issued press credentials. California issues these, I knew a guy who was a stringer in NorCal and had them. Let's see someone like him actually get a radio - I bet he gets nothing more than a run-around for his efforts if he tries.

-AZ

Uh, AZScanner, If you re-read my post I said I am not going to pay to hear RSO meaning I am not even going to try to apply for a rent-radio so we will never know if I could have rented one or been denied one making your point moot and presumptuous to boot. ~SMH~

[ff-medic]

People.....some of them.....start the encryption thread,then watch the threads, and the bickering that goes on.

Where I live, there is vhf low band, vhf high, and uhf band. With the terrain, structures and municipalitys where I live, I wish public safety agencys would go to UHF band.......with one encrypted channel duplex and one encrypted simplex. The rest could be in the clear. Dispatching and normal operations could be in the clear, sensitive tasks.....encrypted. Fire and EMS could share encrypted repeater, with each agency having its own encrypted simplex. Law Enforcement could have their own encrupted simplex and duplex freqs.


FF-Medic

[ff-medic]

Originally Posted by Code20Photog

Actually, there may be some truth to that original statement. Here in Southern California, all the Law Enforcement Agencies in Orange County are on a encrytpted trunked radio system, and they do not provide the media with radios (They took back the ones they had given to the OC register)

Outside of Southern California, few people may know that a number of controversial incidents have occurred in OC in the past few years, including the beating death of a homeless man at the hands of a number of Fullerton police officers. There has been some serious talk that had the radio system NOT been encrypted, and the public and media been able to listen in to police communications, that some of these incidents may not have occured. From some people I know that are 'connected' with Law Enforcement in Orange County, there definatly is a sense of invincibility among officers simply becuase no one can listen in, especially on secondary channels that are not monitored by dispatch.

Cops on the take, now cops beat a homeless guy. Walk into a police station, sheriffs office,state police barraks....and accuse them of wrong doing.

Encryption broadcast - evidence, a particular suspect, rape, fatality, court case, arson, car wreck with fatality and vehicle license info ( save the officers personal cell phone use...save on cell phone cost ) . Found deceased body, administrative discussion........and the list.
goes on.

I see quite a few people on here are anti law enforcement. Tsk, tsk tsk.

Jealous? Or is it a dire attempt to tick some of us off.

" The thin blue line "

FF-Medic !!!!!

[mlmummert]

To be fair, if there are cops committing crimes, they are NOT going to be talking about it on the radio where it can be heard and recorded by their co-workers and BOSSES. If you're doing something wrong, you want as few people as possible to know about it.

I'm speaking as someone that certainly does not like mass encryption.


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[Code20Photog]

Originally Posted by ff-medic

Cops on the take, now cops beat a homeless guy. Walk into a police station, sheriffs office,state police barraks....and accuse them of wrong doing.

You may want to familiarize yourself with this particular case. It's not *just* a beating of a homeless person, it resulted in a police officer being charged with murder:

Death of Kelly Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've covered this case extensively, and I have seen the entire surveillance video, the camera was actually being controlled by the watch commander himself at the police station. Much of it we could not air on television, it's easily the most brutal beating I've ever seen.

Oh, and we have walked into a few police stations and accused the department of corruption. Even got one department completely disbanded after we exposed widespread corruption. Kinda what we do as journalists.

Originally Posted by ff-medic

I see quite a few people on here are anti law enforcement. Tsk, tsk tsk.
Jealous? Or is it a dire attempt to tick some of us off.

There's no jealousy here, nor any sort of ant-law enforcement sentiment. There is a legitimate concern that encrypted radio communications would not allow members of the public to listen and in essence hold officers accountable for certain actions. We have no tape or transcripts of the radio broadcasts from this incident, we have never been able to obtain them. Its not inconceivable that officers may have talked on the radio, on a channel that is not monitored by dispatch, and said things to the extent of "Sounds like it's that guy again, let's take care of the problem once and for all." And if *anyone* thinks that a supervisor or dispatcher is going to bust their fellow officers, read down in the article

"Fullerton City Councilman Bruce Whitaker later went on television stating his belief that there was a cover-up of the beating of Thomas within the police department"

But, which is a more likely daily scenario, officers being able to talk about things like where they're going to hide for the night (When I was a paramedic with AMR, any night, go behind the El Super market in Bell, and you'll find 5 or 6 patrol cars and a bunch of guys hanging out or sleeping, and where my parents live, there are two or three hiding spots that you'll find half a dozen patrol cars at any given time overnight.) or do other things that they are able to get away with knowing no one is listening. Flat out corruption, no. Little things that add up over time, definitely.

[Code20Photog]

Originally Posted by mlmummert

To be fair, if there are cops committing crimes, they are NOT going to be talking about it on the radio where it can be heard and recorded by their co-workers and BOSSES.

Using Ventura County Sheriff as an example, not of corruption, but of their radio system, dispatch operates on Channel 1 west dispatch, 2 records, 3 east dispatch and 4 north dispatch, and can but rarely does, monitor 5 car to car, but there are a number of other channels that officers use that dispatch doesn't monitor and some that they don't even have the ability to broadcast on.

And, as we've seen with scandals and corruption in the past, just because there are co-workers, and supervisors, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, and doesn't mean that they aren't involved either. One only needs to remember the Rampart scandal to know that there is a code of silence that protects officers involved in and accused of wrongdoing.

Citing the example I used above, where my parents live, the graveyard cops have a tendency to hide most of the night. If you really don't think everyone's in on it, you'll be shocked when you find the field sergeant's suburban with the rest of the cars parked on the 3rd floor of the mall parking garage as they hang out and smoke cigars at 2am.

[N2PYS]

I can See a day coming down the road where the little home scanner "hobbyist" has very limited access to open air broadcast,but i also see the day with much more capable Amateur equipment as the words coming out of Washington are very "pro" Amateur and how we are the backbone of Homeland Security and Defense and locking us and the groups we are embedded in technologically out from any interoperability would be a huge huge mistake,also the Government has adopted a buch of ham technology and protocols and Federalized them to make things easier.

So my theory is that those of us that do MARS/CAP, ARES/RACES, SA.Red Cross, and such in the future will be buying radio's with black channels De/ scramblers P25 narrow band capable as well as traditional 3/550 HT's that will make the average Joe listener's top of the line scanner look like a "see and say" from Fisher price, because Amateur Operators have worked hard at earning the title of Communications professionals and doing more with less than anybody ever thought could be done. this is just my opinion.

[rdale]

Your theory is horribly wrong unfortunately... You don't need to hear decrypted dispatches to pass along emergency ham traffic.

[xmo]

N2PYS: "...the words coming out of Washington are very "pro" Amateur and how we are the backbone of Homeland Security and Defense and locking us and the groups we are embedded in technologically out from any interoperability would be a huge huge mistake...
...
...Amateur Operators have worked hard at earning the title of Communications professionals..."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow. Have you been overdosing on the ARES Kool-aid straight or do you mix in some additional hallucinogen?


It’s true that hams have been a big help in disasters – particularly with the use of HF communications across long distances with no infrastructure requirement. Public safety has taken notice of this and will soon have the capability “in-house” so-to-speak:

Intrado Secures Exclusive Agreement To Supply New High Frequency (HF) Emergency Network For Critical Infrastructure | Intrado.com

They do make sure they present this as a supplement to hams, mostly to avoid objections from the ARRL:

Meer also noted that, “Hospitals in America rely on the hard work, patriotism and volunteerism of HAM Radio operators to be their emergency communications system. This new network will greatly expand the capabilities available to HAMs during these times of crisis, and will back up their efforts with an immediately available, sophisticated HF radio network interoperable with the E9-1-1 infrastructure. Hospitals and other critical agencies will have seamless, reliable, encrypted and redundant HF radio capability, giving them immediate connectivity to the outside world in the event of a disaster that renders their other communications systems unusable. ”


Note the use of the term “encrypted”.

With a combination of trends such as cache radios that can be issued to any volunteer that’s handy and kept under control of the Incident Management System along with new technology such as this HF network, hams better get used to a diminishing roll in the future.

[rapidcharger]

Nah.
It's not what equipment you got, its knowing how to use it.
You don't just find "any volunteer" in a disaster. Even if you could, they'll need to know how to rebuild everything that was just destroyed.

But you gotta love it... After spending all these billions on infrastructure that will probably be down in a disaster, now we get to spend untold millions more trying to solve that problem.

At least only one single company has the exclusive... Why get bogged down with the bidding process, right?

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by N2PYS

So my theory is that those of us that do MARS/CAP, ARES/RACES, SA.Red Cross, and such in the future will be buying radio's with black channels De/ scramblers P25 narrow band capable as well as traditional 3/550 HT's that will make the average Joe listener's top of the line scanner look like a "see and say" from Fisher price, because Amateur Operators have worked hard at earning the title of Communications professionals and doing more with less than anybody ever thought could be done. this is just my opinion.

That's quite a run-on sentence. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I think yours falls woefully short of reality.

[xmo]

rapidcharger: “…It's not what equipment you got, its knowing how to use it…”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There’s your fundamental problem – not that hams don’t know how to use their equipment – some of them do – it’s just that too many of them think they know everything.

They come charging in: “ta-da your ham heroes have arrived – get out of the way and let us save the day!”

If hams want a future in emergency communications they need to get off their high horses, take NIMS training, establish a relationship with their local Emergency Management agency, eat some humble pie, and ASK their served agencies how they can be of assistance.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by N2PYS

...because Amateur Operators have worked hard at earning the title of Communications professionals and doing more with less than anybody ever thought could be done. this is just my opinion.

Is that anything like a "Professional Scanner User"?

[iamhere300]

Originally Posted by N2PYS

I can See a day coming down the road where the little home scanner "hobbyist" has very limited access to open air broadcast,but i also see the day with much more capable Amateur equipment as the words coming out of Washington are very "pro" Amateur and how we are the backbone of Homeland Security and Defense and locking us and the groups we are embedded in technologically out from any interoperability would be a huge huge mistake,also the Government has adopted a buch of ham technology and protocols and Federalized them to make things easier.

So my theory is that those of us that do MARS/CAP, ARES/RACES, SA.Red Cross, and such in the future will be buying radio's with black channels De/ scramblers P25 narrow band capable as well as traditional 3/550 HT's that will make the average Joe listener's top of the line scanner look like a "see and say" from Fisher price, because Amateur Operators have worked hard at earning the title of Communications professionals and doing more with less than anybody ever thought could be done. this is just my opinion.

Let me guess, you are a life member of the ARRL right?

HAM radio operators are not going to need P25 encrypted radios to update a report from a shelter. In most cases, getting the HAM's mobilized and into the area that is about all they are going to do. I will say that is in most cases, Joplin's tornado HAMS were vital in the first minutes after the tornado.

And yes, among other things, I am a HAM

[N2PYS]

Yes as a Matter of Fact i am a Life Member of the A.R.R.L and just as things become encrypted things will become un encrypted does anybody remember radar bands and Laser radar and then outlawing radar detecters with devices that could detect there frequency and then the detectors that could not be detected by the detector it was all the same companies making the police equipment and making the civilian equipment and they made BILLIONS the same will happen here if the capitalistic greedy corporations can do it this radio decrypts this but oh this other model decrypts this oh why doesn't someone make one radio for both (yah gotta wait for the fleecing of America first before you get the bells and whistles) In Katrina, Joplin, 9.11,hurricane Sandy we Provided service's that PD FD FEMA and so on could not, we where boots on with radios repeaters emergency power and so on, on 9.11 we had a lot of trained people on the ground ready because we host the NYC Marathon every year and (SK) Steve Mendelssohn always rallied the troops for that, 400 hams every year wore their blaze orange hat and kept the dual band Handy Talkies rocking some of us had dual dual band radio's rocking but if your not a New Yorker and its not your home town you just don't have the sense of pride inside, i've seen my town at some of its highest and at some of its lowest but we don't give up we don't give in but we do give help to one another.

and what is your malfunction with Life Members of the League or for that matter with being a ham being you don't even have your call sign listed??

[JoeyC]

Originally Posted by zz0468

That's quite a run-on sentence. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I think yours falls woefully short of reality.

Originally Posted by N2PYS

Yes as a Matter of Fact i am a Life Member of the A.R.R.L and just as things become encrypted things will become un encrypted does anybody remember radar bands and Laser radar and then outlawing radar detecters with devices that could detect there frequency and then the detectors that could not be detected by the detector it was all the same companies making the police equipment and making the civilian equipment and they made BILLIONS the same will happen here if the capitalistic greedy corporations can do it this radio decrypts this but oh this other model decrypts this oh why doesn't someone make one radio for both (yah gotta wait for the fleecing of America first before you get the bells and whistles) In Katrina, Joplin, 9.11,hurricane Sandy we Provided service's that PD FD FEMA and so on could not, we where boots on with radios repeaters emergency power and so on, on 9.11 we had a lot of trained people on the ground ready because we host the NYC Marathon every year and (SK) Steve Mendelssohn always rallied the troops for that, 400 hams every year wore their blaze orange hat and kept the dual band Handy Talkies rocking some of us had dual dual band radio's rocking but if your not a New Yorker and its not your home town you just don't have the sense of pride inside, i've seen my town at some of its highest and at some of its lowest but we don't give up we don't give in but we do give help to one another.

Now THATS a nice run-on job!

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by xmo

rapidcharger: “…It's not what equipment you got, its knowing how to use it…”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There’s your fundamental problem – not that hams don’t know how to use their equipment – some of them do – it’s just that too many of them think they know everything.

They come charging in: “ta-da your ham heroes have arrived – get out of the way and let us save the day!”

If hams want a future in emergency communications they need to get off their high horses, take NIMS training, establish a relationship with their local Emergency Management agency, eat some humble pie, and ASK their served agencies how they can be of assistance.

Yep, and these are the reason why many of us in public health and safety RUN far away from the typical ARES whacker.

A recent exchange at my hospital made me ASHAMED to be a ham of close to 30 years, never in my life have I seen grown men act like children. Amazing how some people just don't get it.

Hams who actually have a desire to serve the served agency need to learn how to do so and get in where they fit in, and get the proper training, credentials, and do what the served agency asks of them, not bust through the door with a commanding attitude like they own the place. Can you say whackerism?

If one doesn't want to actually serve the served agency and assimilate, then please, do your fellow hams who actually WORK HERE a favor and STAY HOME, and take your ARES badges, light bars and snotty attitude with you. Leave the real work to be done to us "rogue professional" employee hams (yes, the FCC said it's ok, we can do this in emergencies and in training for such emergencies) and learn your place, then come back with a better attitude and learn how to serve instead of acting like whacktards.

[iamhere300]

Cancelled the message.

[brandon]

And what do any of these last 10+ posts have to do with the Riverside PSEC system?

[loumaag]

Originally Posted by brandon

And what do any of these last 10+ posts have to do with the Riverside PSEC system?

Apparently nothing, so any further off topic post earns an infraction. No warning.