Southwick, MA - Southwick Police Radio System Outdated

[Thunderbolt]

SOUTHWICK, Mass. (WGGB) — The town’s Police Department is in desperate need of a new radio communication system.

Southwick Police Radio System Outdated - Western Massachusetts Breaking News and First Warning Weather with WGGB.com ABC 40

[kc0vgj]

No they don't.... They just want fancy no good radios...lol

[ecps92]

Incorrect.

The radio system is well outdated and in need of an upgrade, which should have occured 3-5 yrs ago.

Originally Posted by kc0vgj

No they don't.... They just want fancy no good radios...lol

[kc0vgj]

I from that area. I was born and raised in West springfield mass off of piper road. I know there radio's need to be replaced thats what the "LOL" came in play....

The truth is. The more bells and whiles you install in a radio system, the more problems your going to get. I'm not a fan of digital radios expect on hf. anolog radio system are simple and more relibale and get better ranged. digital on 800/700 system are less powerful and can't go throught stander object as well as anolog can.

Every time i enter walmart with my fire digital radio it gos in and out of rang every time. but on my ham radio i can hit the tower every time. Yes both system are on the same tower. anyways this is all in my opinion.

[Wyandotte]

I looked up this city, it's VHF. I'm guessing, based upon my neck of the woods, they have been on these frequencies for 40 years or so. I would start with a new feedline and antenna, before I bought a whole new system. It's probably very true that the coverage is suffering. I'm guessing it's because the original install coax is leaking RF like a soaker hose. And the antenna has lots of corrosion. You can probably take the feedline down by snapping it like a twig. And I'll bet they keep moving the same kinked up antenna mount and coax from old new vehicle to new vehicle, instead of putting a fresh feedline in each new vehicle.

Those who follow my musings see me post this often:
If a municipality swapped out the base coax and antenna every 10 years, radio vendors wouldn't sell half the systems they do.

[kc0vgj]

I totaly agree. Newer is not always better. Proper Mainatance is the key.

[central190]

all I can say hope they stay VHF anolog on there current frequency I.know a company that might be taking over it and going to all a different brand of radios too not what they currently have at this moment.

[rapidcharger]

That's a small town, both in size and population (8,800). It's pretty flat and there's a huge 800' cliff on the west side of town that would give every square inch of that town portable in-building coverage for a lot less than $300k. That town is single site material.

[MTS2000des]

$300,000 is not alot of money for a complete "ground up" replacement of such a system. 3-5 talk paths, new backhaul, new portables and mobiles, licensing, buildout- this is about average, especially if their goal is 99.9 percent body worn portable coverage, more if they stay on VHF- the worst band for body worn and in-building use.

A MotoTRBO or NXDN system would probably solve all their problems.

The system they are using now is obviously inadequate. Of course I couldn't help but notice the use of PRO series radios, some of the WORST performing portables Motorola ever produced. Complete total garbage, especially the early run VHF models that had problems with noise on the front ends.

Sidenote: I love the moron reporters comment "can't they just use cellphones now?"

Yeah right lady. When a firefighter is working a structure fire, in full turnout gear, he's gonna whip out that Iphone and ask Siri to call his water supply to ask for more pressure- or a cop who is on a traffic stop holding a suspect at gunpoint is gonna have time to fumble with his Droid to make a phone call or send a quick text to his backup. Get real.

[ecps92]

TRBO and NXDN do not allow the Interoperability component that Public Safety need.

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

A MotoTRBO or NXDN system would probably solve all their problems.

[rapidcharger]

Originally Posted by ecps92

TRBO and NXDN do not allow the Interoperability component that Public Safety need.

They can be patched or the channels can be mixed mode or just changed to analogue when needed.

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

$300,000 is not alot of money for a complete "ground up" replacement of such a system. 3-5 talk paths, new backhaul, new portables and mobiles, licensing, buildout- this is about average,

Actually, it's BELOW average. Far below average in fact, for a city of that size. It may be low compared to what other cities have spent, but does a city with (I'm guessing) fewer than 20 full time responders really need that kind of performance? Not everywhere has a budget surplus like where you live
They can't just head down to their local Titlemax with the titles to all their fire trucks and police cars.

[cg]

1 dozen mobiles and 2 dozen portables would likely set them back around 30-40 thousand. Add new consoles, antennas, hardline, voter, and $300,000 goes away fast.
Higher isn't always better. If they were to the top of the hill, the coordinators/FCC would likely drop the ERP level from what they are at due to the signal going farther out.
Interop is kind of shot, surrounding towns are 800MHz P25 TRS (x1), 800MHz analog (x1), UHF (x1), VHF Hi analog (x2), VHF Hi P25 (x1). FD/EMS is VHF analog.
The system is better than it was a few years ago when they were last having issues but definately time.

chris

[ecps92]

Not bad - add another place to Crap out
Patch $$, Patch $$, Patch $$ - Opps, Repeat

Analog or P25 is Interop, Patching is adding another layer of Oooppps, Crap

Originally Posted by rapidcharger

They can be patched or the channels can be mixed mode or just changed to analogue when needed.

.

[rapidcharger]

Ok well the town is only 4 or 5 miles across. They could do fine with simplex too.
I've lived in places many times the size of southwick where base-mobile was adequate.
They can start out with some new radios, something better than Pro series and as revenue trickles in from the 3,318 households in the town, they can add some additional infrastructure as needed.

@cg,
Radios don't have to cost over a thousand dollars a piece. Southwick can literally go to HRO (Ham Radio Outlet) and buy at (fairly high) retail, VXD-720's and VXD-7200's for $500. These are perfectly good radios and are being used for public safety elsewhere, all over the country. There's plenty in between pagers and ringing a bell in the town square to signal when there's a fire and $300k in infrastructure.

[kc0vgj]

I have my own radio system using two m1225 radio linked on a 45ft tower 25watts power using two J pole antenna's and doing great with it. I get my whole town covered and surrounding towns as well.

So why do we ham's have better gear even home made and do way better then our local public service system while little money involed?

[ecps92]

Because Hams [which is a hobby], typically don't require the same SPECS and Standards for Two-Way Communication that a Public Safety Agency would. Typically a Public Safety entity requires 90% coverage 90% of the time [Bad in my perspective, should be more] especially within Bldgs and basements.

Originally Posted by kc0vgj

I have my own radio system using two m1225 radio linked on a 45ft tower 25watts power using two J pole antenna's and doing great with it. I get my whole town covered and surrounding towns as well.

So why do we ham's have better gear even home made and do way better then our local public service system while little money involed?

[kc0vgj]

I understand that our standers are different in many ways, But most of the specs are the same.

For ex: My Dad was a Fire-Chief in Texas, and yes I was a member, There radio system was realy old. The reapeter was filled with dust, the coax was dry-rotted and the antenna was basicly rust. it was realy bad. I asked my Dad if the fire-department would hold a meating and I told them I can fix the hold system for $6,000. The member agree with my plans and I fixed there radio system. An it still works today w/ better coverage. The repeater is a Icom Simple VHF Repeater with Duplexer 50watts, and the antenna is a CommScope - its sits on a 45 foot tower behind the station. I ran pvc pipe from the repeater in the station undergound to the tower installed a utillities box and ran more pvc pipe up the tower installed two 90 Degree elbows and ran the coax through to the Antenna. This protected the cable.

So why is that people like us can setup a commercial system and our stuff last and works better longer. Then the averaged installer?

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by ecps92

TRBO and NXDN do not allow the Interoperability component that Public Safety need.

Oh really? Last I checked, all NXDN and most TRBO subscriber radios (except a few specialty ones) do analog conventional, just like P25- which is what everyone defaults to for "interoperability" anyway.

[ecps92]

Interoperability does not just mean the ability for you to go Analog and talk to the neighbors, it is also about Situational Awareness and the ability for your neighbors to monitor you. So if your running NXDN and TRBO how can your neighbors listen, unless they have a TRBO or NXDN radio

Apples, Oranges and Fruit-Cakes [ Salesmen ]

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

Oh really? Last I checked, all NXDN and most TRBO subscriber radios (except a few specialty ones) do analog conventional, just like P25- which is what everyone defaults to for "interoperability" anyway.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by ecps92

Interoperability does not just mean the ability for you to go Analog and talk to the neighbors, it is also about Situational Awareness and the ability for your neighbors to monitor you. So if your running NXDN and TRBO how can your neighbors listen, unless they have a TRBO or NXDN radio

Apples, Oranges and Fruit-Cakes [ Salesmen ]

No different scenario than closed, encrypted P25 trunking networks.
Again, that is what ISSI is for. If the real goal is interconnecting networks, more should be done to make real cross-platform ISSI a reality (not patches or gateways, but real packet level switching). You know, it's done everyday in VOIP, it's call SIP.