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Old 04-07-2013, 1:24 PM
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Default Lincoln, NE - Nebraska troopers union to delay formal complaint over radio system

LINCOLN, Neb. The union that represents Nebraska state troopers agreed Tuesday to postpone its formal complaint about the state's troubled emergency radio system in an attempt to informally work out a solution with the state.

Nebraska troopers union to delay formal complaint over radio system - Omaha.com
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Old 04-07-2013, 6:56 PM
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HOLY CRAP BATMAN.. A MOTO SYSTEM THAT ISN'T GOLDEN...

Tear it apart as if it were a HARRIS system...
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:25 PM
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i think the biggest problem is that the officers dont know the limitations on a radio system that was designed for mobile coverage NOT portable coverage. On the incident that happened in alliance last year, the big compliant was the hand held radios not working. well the closest trunking site is about 20 miles south of alliance. the terrain has rolling hills so unless it is on some ridiculously tall tower, i can see how the hand held radios were having problems. I usually see two problems with these new big fancy systems.

1. is the lack of planning or thinking ahead to put some tactial SIMPLEX channels in the radios, part of the reason i think this is not done regularly is that most department heads want to record ALL radio traffic. I is probably easier to do off the trunked system. I think if the agencies involved in the alliance situation could have used a simplex channel, we would have never heard about it.

2. TRAINING. Nothing like handing a cop a new $5000 radio and saying here you go, get after it. I have been using high end radios for the last several years and i am still learning about them everyday. I have a good friend that is a state trooper here in oklahoma, he got a new car a couple of weeks ago and it has a brand new APX6500 mobile and a new APX6000 portable in it. So i asked how much training he got with them, he said "training, what training?" he has been using low band til now so you now see my point.
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Old 04-08-2013, 9:22 AM
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Default Lincoln, NE - Nebraska troopers union to delay formal complaint over radio syst

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Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
HOLY CRAP BATMAN.. A MOTO SYSTEM THAT ISN'T GOLDEN...

Tear it apart as if it were a HARRIS system...
Ask people in Philly about how perfect /\/\ systems are...


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Old 04-08-2013, 9:59 AM
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If it were a Harris system, this comment section would by 1000 times longer and be tearing it apart as junk, ripped off customer, and every other BS excuse.. But a Moto system is "Great" even if it doesn't work.. GO FIGURE..
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:16 AM
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Default Lincoln, NE - Nebraska troopers union to delay formal complaint over radio syst

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Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
If it were a Harris system, this comment section would by 1000 times longer and be tearing it apart as junk, ripped off customer, and every other BS excuse.. But a Moto system is "Great" even if it doesn't work.. GO FIGURE..
If it was OpenSky, the number of comments would crash the Radio Reference servers.


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Old 04-08-2013, 10:17 AM
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Default Lincoln, NE - Nebraska troopers union to delay formal complaint over radio syst

Instead of silence.


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Old 04-08-2013, 10:20 AM
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"GO FIGURE"
---------------

The difference is like this.

You need a Kenworth but you buy a Silverado and you're not happy. Not buying what you need doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Chevy's.

On the other hand, if you need a small car and you buy a Yugo and you're not happy - well - maybe you should have done a little research first .
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:30 AM
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In my local area a few years ago I saw how a trunked system should be put into use. There is only one word that solves most (but not all) future problems and that word is training. In my area they took many, many man hours per employee to take units out of service during regular working hours and put the employees in a classroom and teach them how the system would be used. Of course it helps a lot if the system has been built to specs with enough towers but in this situation the installation fortunately had been done right. The on-air discipline is a pleasure to hear, whereas a neighboring jurisdiction's radio consists of mostly unintelligible garbage (it's a similar Motorola 800 mHz system). "Hand 'em a radio; they'll know what to do with it!" Yeah, right! I echo the "lack of training" post above because I've seen it done right and not done at all, and you don't want to go near the "no training" system when it's in use.
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Old 04-08-2013, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2NJS View Post
In my local area a few years ago I saw how a trunked system should be put into use. There is only one word that solves most (but not all) future problems and that word is training. In my area they took many, many man hours per employee to take units out of service during regular working hours and put the employees in a classroom and teach them how the system would be used. Of course it helps a lot if the system has been built to specs with enough towers but in this situation the installation fortunately had been done right. The on-air discipline is a pleasure to hear, whereas a neighboring jurisdiction's radio consists of mostly unintelligible garbage (it's a similar Motorola 800 mHz system). "Hand 'em a radio; they'll know what to do with it!" Yeah, right! I echo the "lack of training" post above because I've seen it done right and not done at all, and you don't want to go near the "no training" system when it's in use.
That's exactly right. It's also important to stress that most wide-area systems are designed for mobile coverage, not portable in-street and certainly not portable in-building coverage. Unfortunately the lack of training leads to misconceptions and assumptions, and all too many users of nearly any system assume too much.

It isn't the fault of any particular manufacturer's product over any other manufacturer's product. As long as the system is properly designed, engineered and installed, it will do what it was designed to do, no matter the name of the manufacturer.
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Old 04-08-2013, 5:35 PM
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It will be FUN to see the trash talk when Phase II P25 is forced down the throats.. Moto already has several up and not running.. But it sounds like crap at best.. MD F.I.R.S.T is up in several areas..

IT'S JUST LIKE OPENSKY..Multiplexed radio...

Oh I can't wait !!!
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Old 04-08-2013, 5:42 PM
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There is still the burden of the system provider to at least document concerns to the customer about coverage. The portable coverage problem could also be alleviated with "mobile extenders (repeaters) working through the car's mobile trunking radio. 95% portable coverage is usually very expensive and hard to achieve in rural areas. I can't sympathize with users that blow off the concerns and are not willing to spend 5-10% to get what they really need, regardless of vendor. MOTO isn't perfect and their sales force has been expanded with ambitious people without enough training.
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Old 04-08-2013, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
It will be FUN to see the trash talk when Phase II P25 is forced down the throats.. Moto already has several up and not running.. But it sounds like crap at best.. MD F.I.R.S.T is up in several areas..

IT'S JUST LIKE OPENSKY..Multiplexed radio...

Oh I can't wait !!!
It appears you have first hand experience on how well Phase II works. Care to tell us the whole story ? I mean, you are an expert in it ..right ? Your an engineer ...right ? End user ?
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Old 04-09-2013, 7:42 AM
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It appears you have first hand experience on how well Phase II works. Care to tell us the whole story ? I mean, you are an expert in it ..right ? Your an engineer ...right ? End user ?

Don't start jumping people for posting comments about radio system that you don't know the details about.

First of all, most of the radio systems that have been installed recently, probably were not constructed the way they were originally designed. Why, the reason is cost. The customer (public safety agency) asked for a system with "x" kind of coverage. When the final design came back and the estimated cost was laid on the table, the sticker shock probably caused a heart attack for one or two in the room. So they ended up with "y" for coverage.

What happened next is part of the problems we keep hearing about. The number of radio sites is cut back. The tower heights are lowered and the process continues until a manageable cost come out. Bottom line is that these agencies end up with a marginal radio coverage and all the complaints that go with it. Who is to blame in this? I would put the blame right at the feet of the public safety people that didn't understand what they were doing by cutting back on the cost. They probably didn't even have the brains to bring in a radio engineer to guide them in what they were doing.

So who do you blame? The agencies or the radio vendor for poor radio system performance. In this case, I would have to side with the radio vendor and say you got what you paid for.

A better approach might be to do the radio system in stages. Do some of it one year. Then the following year, add to it. After a number of years you can end up with a decent radio system. Might seem like a never ending process, but the sticker shock is spread over a number of years and doesn't feel so bad as all at once. Plus it gives the system time to shake out any issues that came to the surface right up front. It allows these issues to be resolved as the system develops.

Not all people look at building a system over a number of years. They can't understand the advantages. Plus it allows the public safety agencies to budget a reasonable amount of funds each year rather than all at once.

I have been involved in several of these multi year radio system projects. Like the first year you put in a repeater. The next year you purchase new portable radios. The following year you replace all the mobile radios. What ever choice you make as to what equipment or site facilities it is, the multi year process is much less painful.

The stigma of the different radio vendors names seems to be more at play here than the radio systems issues. Harris has been taking it on the chin for some time now over the MA-COM radio systems they took over. Why blame Harris for something they didn't do? It will take many years to overcome the "Open Sky" radio system problem they inherited when they bought out MA-COM. Why are you not blaming Motorola for all their trunking system blunders that have taken place? They are just as guilty as any other company. It's just that Motorola is better at hiding the problems.
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Old 04-09-2013, 8:14 AM
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Thanks Jim !!.. Harris is taking it way too many times for MINOR (mostly operator expectation issues)..
We have said a million times, lets buy a bunch of Moto labels and stick them on the Harris radios, all of the issues will go away.. Manufacturer loyalty is the MAJOR issue with anything that is not Moto..

@R8000, Yes, I do have first hand experience with the lousy Rx audio on the F.I.R.S.T system and Yes I'am an engineer and Yes, the system does have GREAT coverage and Yes it will have the exact # of sites recommended by Motorola and Yes it is just like Opensky as far as be TDMA (but only 2 slot not 4 slot like OpenSky).
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Old 04-09-2013, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks Jim !!.. Harris is taking it way too many times for MINOR (mostly operator expectation issues)..
We have said a million times, lets buy a bunch of Moto labels and stick them on the Harris radios, all of the issues will go away.. Manufacturer loyalty is the MAJOR issue with anything that is not Moto..

@R8000, Yes, I do have first hand experience with the lousy Rx audio on the F.I.R.S.T system and Yes I'am an engineer and Yes, the system does have GREAT coverage and Yes it will have the exact # of sites recommended by Motorola and Yes it is just like Opensky as far as be TDMA (but only 2 slot not 4 slot like OpenSky).
Jim, I simply gave the guy a chance to to tell us his side of the story since he hinted that he had expert knowledge and or background. You can twist that all around as you like.

@DCR : If you have first hand experience, then that's great. Please share it with us.

Last edited by R8000; 04-09-2013 at 9:10 PM..
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