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Old 02-04-2014, 6:10 AM
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Default Crossville, TN - Deputies dissatisfied with radio system coverage

CROSSVILLE, Tenn. — Several Cumberland County Sheriff's Department deputies and employees attended last week's Emergency Services Committee meeting to voice major concerns about their safety and the emergency communications radio system that is often times failing them when needed.

- See more at: Deputies dissatisfied with radio system coverage » Area News » Crossville Chronicle, Crossville, TN
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Old 02-04-2014, 9:44 AM
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Does anyone know who the original vendor on this was? EADS?

Unique system setup just from what is in the database- a 5 site UHF P-25 trunking system... does not appear to be a simulcast system as each site has different frequencies assigned. Pretty unusual for an area as small as a single county.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAA951 View Post
Does anyone know who the original vendor on this was? EADS?

Unique system setup just from what is in the database- a 5 site UHF P-25 trunking system... does not appear to be a simulcast system as each site has different frequencies assigned. Pretty unusual for an area as small as a single county.
The article says it's a Kenwood P25 system. So that explains it all. LOL
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Old 02-04-2014, 1:23 PM
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Its not the radio type (e.g. Kenwood) its the P25 system! It either works or it doesn't...there is no gray area! Digital / trunking radio is good in good weather, smooth terrain, no metal buildings, short trees, and smiles with the mouth twisted the right way. The USCOE went digital 4 years ago at a local project...most of their communication is by land line now since they can shout further than the radios work. Even the NCSHP still uses simulcast after several years of their systems enactment. If you go back to the original report on communications from 911 one of the major faults was that the emergency responders could not communicate from outside to inside the building using the P25/trunking system. This was later taken out of the final report (wonder why?).
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Old 02-04-2014, 3:58 PM
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Default Crossville, TN - Deputies dissatisfied with radio system coverage

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloop View Post
Its not the radio type (e.g. Kenwood) its the P25 system! It either works or it doesn't...there is no gray area! Digital / trunking radio is good in good weather, smooth terrain, no metal buildings, short trees, and smiles with the mouth twisted the right way. The USCOE went digital 4 years ago at a local project...most of their communication is by land line now since they can shout further than the radios work. Even the NCSHP still uses simulcast after several years of their systems enactment. If you go back to the original report on communications from 911 one of the major faults was that the emergency responders could not communicate from outside to inside the building using the P25/trunking system. This was later taken out of the final report (wonder why?).

Actually it comes down to PPPPPPP(Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance) and budget. A PROPERLY designed system, designed by COMPETENT engineers, specific to the customers needs/wants/budget will work in metal buildings, in mountainous terrain, with California redwood cedars, and all during a tropical down pour IF what they want is what is budgeted for. A lot comes down to funding the system. If you want a Ferrari Enzo(95/95 on belt, in building coverage)it can not be built with a Honda Civic buget(95/95 mobile on major roadway coverage)


While there is not much info, I would guess it is poor coverage, due to poor system planning. Was there even acceptance testing?????? It also looks like they wanted the Ferrari Enzo system, on a Honda Civic budget...


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Old 02-04-2014, 5:22 PM
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Default Fail to plan is planning to fail

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Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
Actually it comes down to PPPPPPP(Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance) and budget. A PROPERLY designed system, designed by COMPETENT engineers, specific to the customers needs/wants/budget will work in metal buildings, in mountainous terrain, with California redwood cedars, and all during a tropical down pour IF what they want is what is budgeted for. A lot comes down to funding the system. If you want a Ferrari Enzo(95/95 on belt, in building coverage)it can not be built with a Honda Civic buget(95/95 mobile on major roadway coverage)


While there is not much info, I would guess it is poor coverage, due to poor system planning. Was there even acceptance testing?????? It also looks like they wanted the Ferrari Enzo system, on a Honda Civic budget...


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You hit the nail on the head.....def was a honda budget project!

This issue goes back all the way to the bidding process. There was no one locally with a strong communications background driving this project.

I suspect the vendor was the consultant, and like many systems, it was under engineered to keep the price low.

Cumberland County is about 500 sq miles of small mountains and valleys. The system is a 5 site, probably needed to be a seven site.

Cartwright communications, a reputable shop, stated the problem was not radios, but a system issue.

Would you want the politicians or a sheriff making decisions about your heart doctor? Like the ole Midas commercial, you can pay me now, or latter!
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Old 02-04-2014, 5:59 PM
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I live in Crossville and yes the original vendor was EADS which I think has changed their name now. This project was of coarse given to the lowest bidder and the vendor fed the county full of bs at the time about how this was the latest, greatest technology and actually stated that this system was the first of its kind in the country if my memory serves me correctly.
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Old 02-04-2014, 6:30 PM
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A quote from the origianl post from three years ago about the Cumberland County system:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cumbcoradio View Post
700/800 Mhz propagation in the terrain of Cumberland County is less than ideal. I don't know if any of you have noticed but there is a 2082' elevation change in our great County. To match the coverage we are achieving at UHF with 700/800 would take at minimum an additional 3 sites.

I suspect that if you were to talk to the people actually using that system you would get a slightly different story than what is published in the media. I don't disparage what they have accomplished. Getting that many agencies to come together and agree on something is a great feat and there is no doubt that the system will be of benefit to those one it.
But don't expect portable coverage everywhere with what they have built out. Ask someone in our neighboring county how it is working for them. Their terrain is similar to our.
So even back then people realized the terrain was going to cause a problem with the radio system. But of course, the vendor sold it as it would work. And I know that poster is talking about 7/800 system and CC is using a UHF P25 trunking system, but the concept is the same...the system is not going to provide adequate coverage.

The full forum is here:

Cumberland County, Tn
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Old 02-04-2014, 6:37 PM
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I have used the system a few times when it was first built and yes there is some problem with it. I think it's in the software but I don't really know. You can be standing within sight of one of the sites and your radio says full signal but you get a bonk and unable to access the system. This is hit or miss all over the county/city. This is not caused by too many users/active talkgroups either.

Regardless of the problem, the real issue is that no one will take blame and no one can seem to fix it. Their was talk a while back about taking legal action against the original vendor but it seems like a solution is discussed one week but none are ever acted upon.

It's going to get someone hurt eventually.
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Old 02-04-2014, 6:41 PM
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Whenever I make a trip to Nashville, I usually stop in Crossville (Peavine exit) for a break. I have Cumberland County programmed in my scanner when I travel through there and never really get good reception. I stopped at the gas station at Peavine Road one time and there were 2 CCSO deputies in there and I was listening to there portables. It sounded awful. The reception was horrible and they had to go outside the building to their car radios to hear the radio traffic and reply if necessary.

You're right, it is going to get someone killed if a deputy cannot get out on his radio to call for backup.
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Old 02-05-2014, 5:38 PM
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Article says this problem has been going on for 10 years.

With all these problems, a statewide system (TACN) is being built. I pick it up loud and clear with a GRE PSR-800. There are towers for this in Cumberland County, where Crossville is. Many counties are using TACN now. Why not Crossville? No one mentions TACN in the article.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by productionguy85 View Post
The article says it's a Kenwood P25 system. So that explains it all. LOL
How old are you, 10?
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:17 PM
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This is why these complicated DTRS are so ill-suited to the small rural county government where Tweetledee and Tweetledum are bickering over who's going to fix it.
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Old 02-06-2014, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by productionguy85 View Post
The article says it's a Kenwood P25 system. So that explains it all. LOL
Drink some more motorola koolaid and read this

Dead Air, Garbled Transmissions Trouble Washington Troopers » News » OPB
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Old 02-06-2014, 8:03 PM
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Originally Posted by radiofan1 View Post

What does this have to do with Motorola... I is not mentioned at all in this post....
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:36 AM
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Smile Starcom P25 Illinois

The Motorola starcom system is working in Illinois, maybe they could look into that.
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Old 02-19-2014, 6:10 AM
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Here is the problem.. Quote from the engineering firm who pushed for the EADS system back in 2006...

FGGE strongly recommends the EADS proposal and believes that the offered system is the state-of-the-art for the country, if not the world.

Guess it is so advanced nothing can work with it.

Finance committee approves new communications system » Area News » Crossville Chronicle, Crossville, TN
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Old 02-19-2014, 8:58 AM
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If I had a nickel for every thread that stated there were communications problems. It's everywhere it seems. Could digital be part of that?
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Old 02-19-2014, 9:07 AM
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If I had a nickel for every thread that stated there were communications problems. It's everywhere it seems. Could digital be part of that?
Nope!
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poltergeisty View Post
If I had a nickel for every thread that stated there were communications problems. It's everywhere it seems. Could digital be part of that?
Yep.

It also doesn't help when a municipality that is broke and doesn't have the money to do a proper build out or hire competent, experienced technicians to oversee the administration and maintenance of a complex system.
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