General Database Question

wb0wao · #1 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 09:34 AM

I have a general question about the format in the database listings - specifically trunked systems:

Several listings have LCN's listed as "00", what exactly does this mean? One system I would like to monitor has 3 freqs with LCN's assigned and 3 freqs listed with LCN's of "00". I know that there is traffic on those freqs as I have heard them when I have manually entered them and when I program the scanner with the 3 freqs with LCN's and run it in trunk mode, I do hear portions of the conversation. The "missing" segments of the conversation are on those other three freqs.

So what does the "00" indicate? Are the LCN's just unknown and the true LCN is awaiting to be discovered? Also, on the same listing the LCN's for 01 thru 08 show "N/A" - does that mean something specific??

Thanks

Dennis - WB0WAO

AlabamaRS · #2 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 12:04 PM

It probably means to program in X000 position in your scanner instead of x001 or other channels. N/A would mean that particular slot/channel is not used , leave it blank. also the lcns for the system you are trying to program,could be incorrect in th database. post the link to the system you are trying to program
Paul

wb0wao · #3 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 12:26 PM

Trying to program AmerenUE for Cape Girardeau:

AmerenUE - 800 MHz (Missouri) Trunking System, Various, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

LCN's 09, 10 and 11 work great - but there are three different freqs listed with LCN's of "00" and they do have traffic on them that is related to the site. LCN's 01 - 08 show as N/A which I assume means unused/unknown. I am confident that they should have a LCN, and I can probably just find it randomly - but I want to determine what the "00" indicates in the database listing and if they are in some specific order as listed.

Same as with the Benton site - three seperate freqs with "00", LCN 01 listed as N/A and the control channel listed as 02.

Dennis - WB0WAO

AlabamaRS · #4 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 12:57 PM

Also each site will need to be in its own bank or separate Tsys. also what scanner are you using?. also you will need a good strong Control channel signal. read the misc info, this may or may not apply to what you are trying to monitor. As for the Benton site my guess is the info is either incomplete or just not accurate at all. YOU may want to ask in the Missouri forums

wb0wao · #5 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 01:36 PM

Thanks for the reply.... Perhaps I didn't phrase my question correctly - I wasn't asking for specific information on a specific site. I was wondering why there were three discreet frequencies that had the LCN designator of "00". There are several sites that have these as well a a couple of sites with the LCN of "99" for multiple discrete frequencies. I know that these "00" frequencies are a part of the site in question and the listing shows LCN 01 thru LCN 08 as 'N/A".

In a nutshell - does the "00" designation mean that the LCN for those frequencies for a site are unknown?

and

Does the annotation of "N/A" in a specific LCN mean that that LCN does not exist at that site _or_ does it mean that the frequency for that speciic LCN is unknown (possibly one of the "00" frequencies that is listed for the site.

Again, this is not a question about a specific site - but in the way that information is contained in the database listings.

Dennis - WB0WAO

AlabamaRS · #6 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 01:46 PM

Does the annotation of "N/A" in a specific LCN mean that that LCN does not exist at that site _or_ does it mean that the frequency for that speciic LCN is unknown (possibly one of the "00" frequencies that is listed for the site.

means that LCn is not used on that site, the all 000's I do not know what that means, but your particular idea is possible, What scanner are you using.. also take time to read the misc info under the link you posted, that may or may not apply with you

wb0wao · #7 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 02:03 PM

Using a PRO-528 right now. I am at work now, so I will "experiment" some when I get home. Hope they are on the air! I have a feeling that those "00" frequencies are somewhere in the first eight LCN's - I just need to figure out which ones they are.

Dennis - WB0WAO

loumaag · #8 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 10:54 AM

Looking at the system, I am guessing (note *guessing*) that the ones listed as LCN 00 are unconfirmed LCN numbers. IOW, they don't know what slot they belong in.

I am a little confused by the description (whoever put it there) of the system as a "multi-zone" system and the fact that someone has broken the system into "zones". I have never heard of "zones" in relation to EDACS systems and arguably the largest one we have in the database (RACOM) has no such division. There is a lot wrong with the way that is set up; for example, we all know that there is no LCN 0 in an EDACS system, so an explanation of what is going on would have been helpful.

ericcarlson · #9 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 12:06 PM

Since it's EDACS, it should not have zones defined, that's an error.

Some admins have in the past indicated unconfirmed LCNs with arbitrary numbering schemes, e.g., using zero for the LCN or giving them very high numbers that would be invalid in actuality. However, our standard policy now is that the unconfirmed LCNs should be listed in a separate site but only if they are known to be in use (just the LCN is unknown).

The short answer to the original question is that the 00 LCNs are unconfirmed and further detective work is required before we can know for sure how to correctly program them into a scanner.

wb0wao · #10 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 12:23 PM

Thanx Lou! That is what I kind of thought - I think that several of those freqs may be incorrect according to the FCC license information I found. I am at work but will look at it and try to figure it all out tonite. I know I am in range of two of the sites and possibly a third, so I will attempt to at least confirm those two sites.

Dennis - WB0WAO

georgew0819 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 01:02 PM

A check of the FCC ULS showed the following;

Call Sign WNVQ251 Radio Service YJ - Business/Industrial/Land Trans, 809-824/854-869 MHz, Trunked
5 Frequencies for Location 1
All Locations 1 - CAPE GIRARDEAU, MO2 - CHARLESTON, MO3 - DEXTER, MO4 - BAKERVILLE, MO5 - Marble Hill, MO6 - Marble Hill, MO

Frequency Freq ID Station Class
854.36250 3 FB2C
855.18750 4 FB2C
855.68750 5 FB2C
857.11250 6 FB2C
858.11250 7 FB2C

Call Sign WPZU988 Radio Service YB - Business, 806-821/851-866 MHz, Trunked
4 Frequencies for Location 1
All Locations1 - Benton, MO2 - Rad. around Benton, MO

Frequency Freq ID StationClass
854.76250 1 FB2C
855.53750 2 FB2C
856.91250 3 FB2C
857.91250 4 FB2C

If you try using these frequencies and order as shown under the Freq ID column you should be able to determine the Control Channels and receive all the system traffic for those two areas.

loumaag · #12 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgew0819

...If you try using these frequencies and order as shown under the Freq ID column you should be able to determine the Control Channels and receive all the system traffic for those two areas.

If you determined those frequency IDs then yes; if you are relying on what the FCC has in it's DB, that does not relate to the LCN of the system at all. Indeed, the FCC has no idea what kind of trunking system is in use, much less the channel lineup.