DMR Unknown Talkgroups

[jtech48]

I understand that users are not allowed to submit Unknown talkgroups, but in the case of DMR and if some users are like me and prefer the use of a Motorola XPR radio to log info on a system, without a talkgroup the radio will not unmute. I've seen some DMR systems in the database that display a "Talkgroups Heard" section above the Sites which is tremendous help since I will be able to now listen that talkgroup and eventually submit info to update that Alpha Tag. Is it possible to implement this in the DMR submissions?

 

[RayAir]

I understand that users are not allowed to submit Unknown talkgroups, but in the case of DMR and if some users are like me and prefer the use of a Motorola XPR radio to log info on a system, without a talkgroup the radio will not unmute. I've seen some DMR systems in the database that display a "Talkgroups Heard" section above the Sites which is tremendous help since I will be able to now listen that talkgroup and eventually submit info to update that Alpha Tag. Is it possible to implement this in the DMR submissions?

I think they want us submitting unid TGs to the obscure Wiki section. As I'm sure you already know, it can be very challenging to get a confirmed company ID on some DMR systems, especially large Connect Plus ones with hundreds of TGs.


You can target particular TGs of interest and try to record them throughout the day while you're away then listen to them later to try to ID . I've recorded them with DSD in the past as well as with a radio and a digital voice recorder set
to VOX. It can still take a while to narrow it down to a company name.

Good luck.

 

[DaveNF2G]

You can target particular TGs of interest and try to record them throughout the day while you're away then listen to them later to try to ID . I've recorded them with DSD in the past as well as with a radio and a digital voice recorder set
to VOX. It can still take a while to narrow it down to a company name.

Good luck.

This assumes that you know of the existence of TGs of interest and what their ID numbers are. There are few DMR radios that can search out groups that are not already programmed into the radio.

I think it would be useful for the DB to list existing but unidentified TGIDs as it would lead to more such groups being identified. It would also remove a lot of trunked systems from the "unscannable" and therefore not downloaded category.

BTW, this is already being done, for example, in the One Voice network listings. So it's certainly possible.

 

[wb0wao]

I would think that a general description would be useable - such as "Farming Operations", "Delivery Service", or "Construction". Without having a "source" with the company that owns the subscriber system, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible to identify a single talk group to a named company. I think that if the requirement was to identify the TG user as "Bob's 24 Hour Towing" rather than "Towing Operations" to be included in the database would be counterproductive.

 

[wa8pyr]

Unconfirmed talkgroups are not permitted in the database; this has been RR policy for many years and won't be changed simply because DMR is available in scanners. Our policy is confirmed data only; at minimum, the specific function of a talkgroup must be listed, like "towing service" or "trash hauling."

All unconfirmed talkgroups are to be listed in the Wiki; the database isn't a scratchpad for unconfirmed information.

 

[ka3jjz]

<snip>
All unconfirmed talkgroups are to be listed in the Wiki; the database isn't a scratchpad for unconfirmed information.

And to follow up on this - far from being 'obscure' as one previous poster called it - any trunk system that has a matching wiki article can have an 'Unidentified Talkgroups' article branching from it. We even have numerous wiki categories, defined by state/province, already constructed for precisely that purpose - a 'scratchpad' as Tom has called it.

We have not enforced any kind of structure for such articles to keep the method of how people feel comfortable with entering their data in whatever manner they choose as open as possible.

The high level category for such data can be found here...

Category:Unknown Talkgroups - The RadioReference Wiki

Building a wiki article for a desired trunk system is pretty simple, as we have a number of templates built that are pretty much 'plug and play'. If you are interested in building such an article and have questions about which templates to use when, please post them in our wiki forum

And as for templates, we have a user guide built for such templates, many of which have pages to describe how to use them here...

Templates-List - The RadioReference Wiki

Mike

 

[nd5y]

Unconfirmed talkgroups are not permitted in the database; this has been RR policy for many years...

Are there different policies for differenet areas or different DB admins or what?
Scroll down to the bottom and look at all the "Unknown" talkgroups at South Dakota State Radio System Trunking System, Statewide, South Dakota - Scanner Frequencies
There are several other systems like this too.

 

[RayAir]

Does anyone check the wiki on here?

It doesn't look like they do around here as deprecated systems are pretty much all it contains.

As far as TGIDs in the database, I was told to be submitted they need a company or agency name. "Tow service" or "Construction Company" won't suffice.

It looks like RR db admins are all on different pages as to submission criteria.

 

[wa8pyr]

Are there different policies for differenet areas or different DB admins or what?
Scroll down to the bottom and look at all the "Unknown" talkgroups at South Dakota State Radio System Trunking System, Statewide, South Dakota - Scanner Frequencies
There are several other systems like this too.

No. Section 6.1 of the Administrator Handbook specifically states that unconfirmed/unidentified information is not permitted in the database and is to be placed in the Wiki.

I have reminded the administrators of this policy.

Does anyone check the wiki on here?

It doesn't look like they do around here as deprecated systems are pretty much all it contains.

As far as TGIDs in the database, I was told to be submitted they need a company or agency name. "Tow service" or "Construction Company" won't suffice.

It looks like RR db admins are all on different pages as to submission criteria.

This is incorrect. As long as a talkgroup is specifically identified by function it is permitted, also as noted in Section 6.1 of the Administrator Handbook.

 

[ka3jjz]

And a particular trunk system won't be marked Deprecated on the wiki unless and until it is so marked on the database

Mike

 

[QDP2012]

List of Unknown TGs has been copied to Wiki

Are there different policies for differenet areas or different DB admins or what?
Scroll down to the bottom and look at all the "Unknown" talkgroups at South Dakota State Radio System Trunking System, Statewide, South Dakota - Scanner Frequencies
There are several other systems like this too.

No. Section 6.1 of the Administrator Handbook specifically states that unconfirmed/unidentified information is not permitted in the database and is to be placed in the Wiki.

I have reminded the administrators of this policy.

For convenience, the data in the "Miscellaneous Talkgroups" section of the South Dakota State Radio System DB page has been copied to the South Dakota State Radio System Unknown Talkgroups RR Wiki page.

Hope this helps,

 

[wa8pyr]

For convenience, the data in the "Miscellaneous Talkgroups" section of the South Dakota State Radio System DB page has been copied to the South Dakota State Radio System Unknown Talkgroups RR Wiki page.

Hope this helps,

And has been removed from the database. . . .

 

[ka3jjz]

Before someone asks how to import these unknown talkgroups into scanner software, the answer is you don't - you can use a copy / paste function that many programs now have, or you can use Excel or similar. See this article for links to more information on this topic

Applications that can copy Frequency Data from the Wiki - The RadioReference Wiki

Mike

 

[DaveNF2G]

The more important question is, How do we get Sentinel et al to download systems that have no "properly" identified talkgroups and are therefore "unscannable" as far as the RRDB is concerned?

 

[ka3jjz]

If these systems are not being downloaded now due to some switch or other logic in the web service, then logic suggests that this 'switch' (for lack of a better term) must be turned on for ALL DMR systems in the database, regardless of whether they have listed talkgroups or not (where encryption is not involved, of course).

I would assume that this would be a part of the database enhancement plans that are being developed now.

Mike

 

[UPMan]

If these systems are not being downloaded now due to some switch or other logic in the web service, then logic suggests that this 'switch' (for lack of a better term) must be turned on for ALL DMR systems in the database, regardless of whether they have listed talkgroups or not (where encryption is not involved, of course).

I would assume that this would be a part of the database enhancement plans that are being developed now.

Mike

We don't download them because Main Database systems have no support for ID Search mode. So, a system that has no scannable channels won't actually be scanned from the main database.

ID Search/discovering stuff is a scan-otaku activity...main database is designed for the novice (but used by many who are not novices, as well).

 

[DaveNF2G]

We don't download them because Main Database systems have no support for ID Search mode. So, a system that has no scannable channels won't actually be scanned from the main database.

ID Search/discovering stuff is a scan-otaku activity...main database is designed for the novice (but used by many who are not novices, as well).

But such systems can be appended to Favorite lists, where the ID Search can be selected. This can only happen, however, if they exist in the DB in the first place.

 

[N5AMS]

Here is a question I am in Louisiana for my last day today wont return for maybe a year can I submit a new system with the system frequencies and system Id and lcn without knowing who it belongs too?

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[nd5y]

If you know the frequencies why didn't you look them up and see who the licensee is? Post the information here and we can probably figure out who it belongs to first, then you can submit it.

 

[N5AMS]

452.2375 CC2 CAP+ LCN4

452.625 CC2 CAP+ LCN1

452.9875 CC2 CAP+ LCN2

451.9625 CC2 CAP+ LCN3

This is in calcaseiu parish Louisiana

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