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Digital Voice for Amateur Use Discuss use of digital voice technologies on the amateur radio bands. This is to include technologies such as VoIP, P25, DMR/TRBO, NXDN, D-STAR, etc.

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Old 01-21-2012, 8:09 PM
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Default Motorola P25

Hey Guys & Ladies,

Question for anyone who can answer. I am wanting to get in to the Motorola P25 hobby (Amateur Radio) which handheld would be best for me to start off with? Motorola XTS 3000? or go with the XTS 5000? I kinda am familiar with the digital type sound when you transmit but I am wanting to know more how P25 works.
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Old 01-25-2012, 9:17 PM
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I'd bet he did mean P25...

Xts3k or 5ks are all over eBay. Obviously the 3k's are usually a little cheaper, but there are a few things n the 5k that are nice to have. Programming is usually the biggest hurdle to overcome. There are several ham systems in Florida that use P25, so maybe ask around and find the guys locally that have access to programming and system info.
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Old 01-26-2012, 3:59 AM
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Check out the P25 training guide from Daniels:

http://www.danelec.com/pdfs/TG-001-3...ng%20Guide.pdf
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Old 01-26-2012, 4:44 AM
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.973 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

I would suggest buying a different brand P25 radio, for about a third of the price. Especially since there is very little ham activity that uses P25.
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Old 01-26-2012, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krokus View Post
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I would suggest buying a different brand P25 radio, for about a third of the price. Especially since there is very little ham activity that uses P25.
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Maybe that's true where you live, but in my area we have at least three P25 repeaters currently in operation with more in the planning stages. We also have two D-Star machines. The best current price bet for a person who wants to start in P25 would be either an XTS3000 or a properly-flashed Astro Saber.
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Old 01-26-2012, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2NJS View Post
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Maybe that's true where you live, but in my area we have at least three P25 repeaters currently in operation with more in the planning stages.
woah, There are!?!? Please pass along that info! Im in NOVA and other than Tim's(N3ITA) quantar up in MD that gets spotty reception in Arlington, my V/UHF XTLs are lonely. I know there are several P25 users in metro DC but I think I am too far from all but a few for mobile simplex down in Alexandria.

I assume Tim's is one of the three your referring too, but I would love to know the other two out there and Ill program the pairs in.

Last edited by immelmen; 01-26-2012 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 01-27-2012, 5:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2NJS
Maybe that's true where you live, but in my area we have at least three P25 repeaters currently in operation with more in the planning stages. We also have two D-Star machines. The best current price bet for a person who wants to start in P25 would be either an XTS3000 or a properly-flashed Astro Saber.
Compared to how many analog repeaters in the same area? The D* are moot, since we're discussing P25 vs analog.

An XTS3k costs less than a Kenwood P25 capable? I find that surprising.
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Last edited by krokus; 01-27-2012 at 5:17 AM..
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:46 AM
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For the benefit of anyone who cares, here are the current P25 repeaters in the DC area: (All frequencies shown are outputs.)

K4IAD 145.170, NAC 293, Dulles Toll Road behind the Sheraton Hotel

N3ITA 442.800, NAC 797, Frederick MD

K3MAD* 448.125, NAC 734, Frederick, MD (Just getting on the air; may not be active yet.)

In addition we are about to add a P25 input remote receiver and link to the WA3KOK system (449.975/107.2 PL in and out) The link will run analog FM back to the main site but we anticipate that the repeated signal, due to the P25 input, will be pretty close to digital quality.

And for anyone who has not used a properly adjusted P25 system, it sounds as if the person you're listening to is standing in the same room with you and gets rid of all the crackly crap that's commonly heard on analog FM.
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Old 01-28-2012, 5:02 AM
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Here is some price comparison that I found. Those of you know know solid facts about pricing that I may be a little off one, please correct me.

A quick search on ebay shown an XTS3000 with normal battery, charger, antenna in the 403-470 mhz range for $382.
That is for a used radio, and no software, one on one support, factory warrenty. etc.

A comparable Icom F80DS is about $1200. You get a NEW radio, plus the factory warrenty, the dealer support that comes with the sale, and 99% of Icom LMR dealers will sell you the cable, a legal disk of the software, and help you get your new radio programmed and going.
I would rather go the new route for peice of mind, but also I dont like the fact that with Motorla, you have to "know" someone to get you a burned copy of the software, or pay the license fee to Mother M which is some in the area of $300.
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Old 01-28-2012, 7:42 AM
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Off-topic posts deleted. This isn't a discussion about D-STAR.
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Old 01-30-2012, 4:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelton
...
A quick search on ebay shown an XTS3000 with normal battery, charger, antenna in the 403-470 mhz range for $382.
That is for a used radio, and no software, one on one support, factory warrenty. etc.
Is the XTS3k still available as a new unit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelton
A comparable Icom F80DS is about $1200. You get a NEW radio, plus the factory warrenty, the dealer support that comes with the sale, and 99% of Icom LMR dealers will sell you the cable, a legal disk of the software, and help you get your new radio programmed and going.
I would rather go the new route for peice of mind, but also I dont like the fact that with Motorla, you have to "know" someone to get you a burned copy of the software, or pay the license fee to Mother M which is some in the area of $300.
How much is a used IC-F80DS?

A Kenwood, Tait, EF Johnson, Vertex, etc. should also be listed. (Along with the cost of programming materials, which can be legally purchased, for all of the mentioned radios.)

I am asking, to keep a level playing field. (Of course, if someone wants to buy a Motorola only, and doesn't mind used equipment, then the other prices are moot.)
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Last edited by krokus; 01-30-2012 at 4:28 AM..
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Old 01-30-2012, 4:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2NJS
... And for anyone who has not used a properly adjusted P25 system, it sounds as if the person you're listening to is standing in the same room with you and gets rid of all the crackly crap that's commonly heard on analog FM.
I use MPSCS on a daily basis, and the voice quality varies, greatly. Besides, a decent FM signal has no "crackly crap" in it. (I won't go into the whole "cliff effect" issue, or multi-path, etc. there are plenty of other threads about all that.)

Either way, by only using P25, you are snobbishly excluding 99% of the ham community. (This is not advancing radio art, as it is not a new schema.)
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Last edited by krokus; 01-30-2012 at 4:39 AM..
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Old 01-30-2012, 4:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immelmen View Post
woah, There are!?!? Please pass along that info! Im in NOVA and other than Tim's(N3ITA) quantar up in MD that gets spotty reception in Arlington, my V/UHF XTLs are lonely. I know there are several P25 users in metro DC but I think I am too far from all but a few for mobile simplex down in Alexandria.

I assume Tim's is one of the three your referring too, but I would love to know the other two out there and Ill program the pairs in.
Here is Florida's compliment:
http://www.florida-repeaters.org/apco25listing.pdf
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Old 01-30-2012, 9:18 AM
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krokus wrote:

"Either way, by only using P25, you are snobbishly excluding 99% of the ham community."

So, back in the sixties you would have insisted that everyone stay with AM when SSB was making inroads? Using P25 excludes nobody, since anyone who cares to can join in by obtaining the proper equipment to participate, and that's the way its' always been in amateur radio. Being "out in front" of the group always has its detractors, but it's hard to understand why.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:30 AM
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A couple years ago I bought a P25 FPP Motorola XTS2500 II with antenna, belt clip, and battery from someone off of Batlabs for a very good price. I'd check there as well. It was my first Moto radio, and the Batboards are full of good information for the Moto newbie.
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Old 02-04-2012, 1:32 PM
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For VHF the Racal/Thales 25 radio works great and they can be had in the $300-$400 range used. These are front panel programmable and its best to look for a 503 or 505 series with the Motorola broad band antenna.

The Datron Guardian P25 handheld is a Racal/Thales inside and also shows up in the $300-$400 range used.
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Old 02-05-2012, 2:50 PM
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Welcome to Yaesu.com


I just ran across it today. I interpret it that Yaesu will be putting out a p25 ham radio and a DMR(2 slot TDMA) ham radio in the near future. I thought it was some good reading regardless.

Jeff.
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Old 02-06-2012, 7:08 AM
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I agree, good reading. Especially since they have pointed out several of the misconceptions about 'digital' communications.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:21 AM
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What I think your best starting off with is with a Motorola Astro Saber. These radios are a bit older, but if your interested in P25 they're probably the best starting point. The XTS 3000 is a cheaper and probably easier to get programmed, if you do intend to go with one of those.

73's!
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA9TED View Post
What I think your best starting off with is with a Motorola Astro Saber. These radios are a bit older, but if your interested in P25 they're probably the best starting point. The XTS 3000 is a cheaper and probably easier to get programmed, if you do intend to go with one of those.

73's!
Make sure it's APCO P25, not ASTRO VSELP. The VSELP protocol is no longer supported by Motorola and there is more support in the amateur market for APCO P25. There are still a few VSELP Sabers out there at dirt-cheap prices.
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