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Digital Voice for Amateur Use Discuss use of digital voice technologies on the amateur radio bands. This is to include technologies such as VoIP, P25, DMR/TRBO, NXDN, D-STAR, etc.

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Old 09-23-2013, 2:15 PM
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Default Yaesu Introduces System Fusion

Yaesu is calling their digital product line "System Fusion"; they introduced the new suie at TAPR in Seattle recently. There's video:

Dennis, K7BV of Yaesu Introduces System Fusion & DR-1 Digital/FM FDMA C4FM Repeater
HamRadioNow Episode 99: Yaesu Announces Digital Voice Repeater at the ARRL-TAPR DCC - YouTube

The video is pretty lightweight but serves as a high level intro. Given the audience, there should have been much more meat on the table and not so many "I think so | don't know | believe so" responses. I'm not picking on the presenter - the intro feels rushed and based on his comments it really feels like the entire product line is as a result of the personal vision of the head of the company. Guess we'll see where that goes.

There's a Yahoo group for those interested:

Yahoo! Groups

"Yaesu System Fusion and Dual Band C4FM / FDMA Digital products including FT1D Handheld Transceiver, FTM-400D Mobile Transceiver, DR-1 Dual-Mode Repeater and WIRES-X/HRI-200 Internet Interface."
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:48 AM
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I am glad the repeater retains backwards compatibility (mixed mode) for analog. I always thought the D-Star repeaters that can't repeat analog was incredibly stupid. Other things that I liked was a speaker on the Yeasu mixed mode repeater, and microphone. Without those, testing and checking repeater performance (desense) is really difficult.

I hear something about updateable firmware. Thank goodness. Hopefully this applies to the whole digital line, not just the repeater. Without this there is no hope of something ever evolving/ getting better. Virtually every consumer electronics gizmo has this functionality!

I also heard documentation of the system will be available for other manufactures and to enable homebrew stuff. Also important. This was the only thing D-Star had that really got me interested... like the node adapters to convert analog radios into d-star repeaters, etc.

It's still kind of a pisser that it cannot interoperable with MotoTrbo/DMR, or P25, two standards that have been around for awhile. So once again, you are vendor locked until and if some other manufacturer comes along. = No competition to drive the price down

You think maybe with a firmware update the Yeasu HT could at least demodulate P25 so you could listed to public safety out of band (agencies that we are supposed to be able inter-operate with)? Technically I think so, P25 uses C4FM modulation afterall, but fat chance that will ever happen I suppose. Yeasu also uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, which is backwards compatible with IMBE used in P25.

The Yeasu guy indicates there is room for yet another digital format. I like Yeasu, but I don't agree here. Depends on price I suppose, and if they will offer D-Star trade in deals. :-)

Wish list:

Support for P25 or DMR. At least ability to decode. I'd buy one tomorrow if it had this.

Audio samples! I still have yet to find anyone who has a Yeasu digital radio so I can compare the digital audio quality.

Pictures of the inside of the Yeasu repeater. Please dear god let it not be two mobiles in box, like Icom.

For any hams are going to buy into another digital format, maybe save a few bucks and get a Kirisun Digital radio. They aren't DMR or P25, but are a lot cheaper.

Radiogearpro.com
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Old 09-24-2013, 5:52 AM
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yawn...another "one off" proprietary digital format, supported by no one else.

We should be putting our efforts as hams into building bridges at the packet level between all these disparate digital networks, otherwise we will end up in the same boat as public safety, who love to dump billions of our tax dollars on fancy radios on closed, walled garden proprietary networks then when they need that "interoperability"...what do they do....wait for it...either switch to:

ANALOG SIMPLEX

or use gateways like a C-Bridge (ideal), MotoBRIDGE (less ideal), or some crude form of audio patching (ACU1000)....

another big step backwards if you ask me.

"Yaesu did it again!"....not.

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Old 09-25-2013, 5:21 PM
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An open-source C-Bridge like product, perhaps developed first for DMR use, seems like an inevitable future development. Make modules for D-Star, System Fusion, P25, whatever.

No doubt there's enough software development brainpower out there in the amateur community to make it happen. Need, will, coordination? Eventually!
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Old 10-20-2013, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VE7WV View Post
An open-source C-Bridge like product, perhaps developed first for DMR use, seems like an inevitable future development. Make modules for D-Star, System Fusion, P25, whatever.

No doubt there's enough software development brainpower out there in the amateur community to make it happen. Need, will, coordination? Eventually!
It's definitely doable, and some work to this end has already been done to bridge between D-Star and DMR; with some effort, I believe there will be bridge software for D-Star to System Fusion sometime soon.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:39 PM
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I agree with all.... here in Alberta the province is moving towards a provincial P25 system as is seen in other provinces and US states.... we need to become more compatible with these systems as our emergency communications is a valued service that we provide. So Please Please Please listen to our needs and allow us to be compatible.
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Old 10-21-2013, 4:37 PM
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Default Yaesu Introduces System Fusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by VE6BRW View Post
I agree with all.... here in Alberta the province is moving towards a provincial P25 system as is seen in other provinces and US states.... we need to become more compatible with these systems as our emergency communications is a valued service that we provide. So Please Please Please listen to our needs and allow us to be compatible.
HUH??? Amateur radio operates on our own spectrum... With our own networks... How do you mean 'compatible'?'


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Old 10-21-2013, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
HUH??? Amateur radio operates on our own spectrum... With our own networks... How do you mean 'compatible'?'


Sent from an unknown place...
I think he's meaning something that we should never do; I would much rather use their radio equipment with their blessing than my own on their frequencies and loose my license.
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Old 10-21-2013, 5:57 PM
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9900; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.746 Mobile Safari/534.11+)

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8OHU
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
HUH??? Amateur radio operates on our own spectrum... With our own networks... How do you mean 'compatible'?'


Sent from an unknown place...
I think he's meaning something that we should never do; I would much rather use their radio equipment with their blessing than my own on their frequencies and loose my license.
I hope not. I am heavily involved with ARES in Alberta, we do not use any radio system other than our own. We do not need to "be compatible" with AFRRCS. I was heavily involved with the amateur radio side of both High River AND Slave Lake... I fail to see why we need to be conpatible with the new P25 system...
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Old 10-21-2013, 6:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS2000des View Post
We should be putting our efforts as hams into building bridges at the packet level between all these disparate digital networks,
Some of us want to, but keep running into walls erected by hams that don't want the purity of their digital format "contaminated" by "inferior digital noises". As for the rest of your post, sometimes the people that need to finance the upgrade don't understand why it's so important to have a unified standard for all services that need to interact in an emergency, nor do the agencies always understand that sharing with neighbors is a good thing.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:29 PM
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I don't care to transmit on frequencies outside the amateur bands, but being able to monitor other digital types/modes would be appreciated. Having had to lock out numerous frequencies because of various digital modes is making scanners and amateur radios next to useless to monitor anything that is worth while. I guess I want to be aware of what is happening in my community without hearing about it days and weeks later.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:55 AM
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For all that like to read in things ... No absolutely not to be able to Tx, that would be nuts and No I would never suggest that we as Amateur Radio Operators do that either (so stop putting words into peoples mouths) Yes to be able to "Monitor" the P25 system (being compatible to do that) would be nice and Yes to Tx on the P25 radio system "not ours". Also Yes to Amateur radio P25 digital radios as from what I have researched D-Star isn't to well liked by everyone (some do like it yes).
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Old 11-04-2013, 1:28 PM
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Smile Stand alone controller

It is too bad that Yaesu Does not have a Stand alone controller that can installed into a existing repeater or could share it with the folks who make the RLC-DSP404 controller. Also make it work with P25 it will be interesting to see how this one turns out.
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Old Yesterday, 2:40 PM
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Default Yaesu System Fusion

Has anyone been using Yaesu's System Fusion Digital yet. I love it on simplex from my Yaesu FTM-400dr and the Yaesu FT1dr..... wondered if anyone has been doing anything yet with it.
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Old Yesterday, 6:44 PM
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Considering the level of enthusiasm shown by the amateur community to the introduction of yet another digital voice format incompatible with all the existing formats - it's a fair guess that by now Yaesu must have sold their digital radios to at least four or five other guys besides you. Maybe they'll check in and you can compare notes.
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